AllBetter

From Chaos to Clarity: Joey C's Journey through Addiction and Recovery

• Joe Van Wie • Season 4 • Episode 85

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Imagine growing up in a high-pressure environment, feeling the weight of fitting in while battling personal demons. Joey C from Westchester, Pennsylvania, courageously opens up about his tumultuous journey through addiction and recovery. Adopted shortly after birth and discovering this life-altering fact at age 11, Joey shares how these formative experiences shaped his struggles. Tune in as we discuss his painful school years, marked by bullying and a desperate need to fit in, and how a move to Scranton for a partial hospitalization program became the catalyst for his recovery.

What happens when the pressure to belong in a high socioeconomic circle leads to substance abuse? Joey's story paints a vivid picture of how seeking acceptance through drugs spiraled into addiction, affecting his relationships, academic performance, and social life. A wake-up call came when an anonymous tip led to school suspension, forcing Joey to confront the severity of his situation. Hear his raw reflections on the long-term impacts of his choices and the isolation from former friends, providing a sobering insight into the cost of addiction.

Journey with us as we explore the dangers of high-potency THC and how Joey's time in rehab marked a turning point. Despite initial resistance, the unwavering support from peers convinced him to stay and ultimately succeed in the program. We highlight the importance of community and personal

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Speaker 1:

Hello and thanks again for listening to another episode of All Better. I'm your host, joe Van Wee. Today's guest is Joey C from Westchester Pennsylvania, joey's alumni of Fellowship House. Joey came on today to tell us his story of how he arrived in Scranton, pennsylvania, for a partial hospitalization program, which I am the CEO of.

Speaker 1:

I wanted Joey to come on, and so did Joey, to discuss the transformation that took place in his life and the empowerment he found by being able to be in a town like Scranton that has a prolific recovery community and furthering the transformation that began in inpatient treatment. We talk a little bit about Joey's history the emotions he had during adolescence, up into college, what addiction did for those emotions, what needs it met and when it stopped working emotions, what needs it met and when it stopped working and when the consequences of his addiction made his life, the quality of his life, dissatisfying and his goal was impossible. Now Joey is enrolled full-time at Westchester University, he transferring to a school in Pennsylvania and we get to discuss how that happened and how recovery produced that. Let's meet Joey C and we're here with Joey C, hello, joey where are you from?

Speaker 2:

I'm from Westchester, pennsylvania, but originally I was born in Johnstown, pennsylvania. Hello, joey, where are you from? I'm?

Speaker 1:

from Westchester, Pennsylvania, but originally I was born in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. And how did you end up in Westchester?

Speaker 2:

Did you do this by car or horse? No, I was actually adopted, so my birth parents didn't really have the ability to take care of me, so they wanted a better life for me, so I was adopted within a week too. Wow, it was a quick little span of time. When did you find out?

Speaker 1:

and how?

Speaker 2:

When did your parents let you know. I remember I was sitting in the car with my grandfather who's now passed and my mom and we got into a simple topic about like pregnancy and things like that. I don't remember how we got onto that topic.

Speaker 1:

A simple topic of pregnancy. Let's talk about something simple for this car ride.

Speaker 2:

I don't remember. I just remember we got onto that topic and I ended up realizing like halfway through my mom was kind of like hinting towards the fact that like she didn't have me, okay, and I asked a question. I was like, so mom was kind of like hinting towards the fact that, like she didn't have me, okay, and I asked a question. I was like so, mom, what are you saying? And she was like well, joe, I think this is a fine time to tell you, but you're adopted.

Speaker 1:

Since we're having a simple conversation and, you know, reserved for car rides, yeah, of course. Well, since I've met you, you've been secure in speaking about it and articulating, Did you? I'm curious did we talk about this? Did you meet other people that were approaching recovery or suffering for substance use disorder that were also adopted?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, actually there's one person that I know now, who was actually we're both pretty familiar with, who's adopted as well. I never knew that said person was adopted, but finding out that they were and we actually have a lot in common regarding our adoption, yeah, I found that to be pretty interesting and a part of me thinks like maybe the fact that I was adopted and learned at like a later age, maybe that had like an impact on my addiction. What age was it? 11., 11., 11.

Speaker 2:

I was older I was older and how many siblings my birth family? I have at least seven siblings.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and when did you, did you reconnect with any of them throughout the years?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, actually my half sister. She just had a baby.

Speaker 1:

Oh, congrats.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I got in contact with her while I was still in active addiction, but about six months ago, seven months ago I got in contact with her and we were talking pretty much daily and then we kind of fell off for a little bit. I think something happened with the phone bill or something. I don't really know, I'd have to reread the text. But we didn't talk for a few months. And then recently recently she just reached out to me and she was like hey, listen, like I've been in, I've been dealing with the baby a good bit, Like she's expected at any time, and ever since then we've been pretty much talking daily. So so you were adopted.

Speaker 1:

Yes, sir, by a beautiful, wonderful, caring family and these are your own reports of discussing them and I've had the great fortune to meet both of your parents and get to know them. And what was the first 11 years like? How would you summarize your experience in Westchester?

Speaker 2:

I mean, growing up school was a little bit of an issue, not because I wasn't intelligent, but because I didn't feel like I fit in. Um, I got bullied from a young age um, ever since, from first to sixth, seventh grade, I was actually bullied. Um. I remember when I was in first grade I got picked on by the older kids um, just because I knew a lot of the kids in the older grades and like some I don't really know like what exactly happened, but like I just like I kind of got on their bad side, just cause I was like I was a young kid, I was self-centered, cocky, like I was just a cocky first grader. It's hard to believe you like what.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, I got picked on when I was younger by the older kids, um, but that that kind of continued um, not necessarily by the older kids, but kids of my grade as the years progressed, um second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth grade, um more second and third, I kind of found my little clique of friends, um, I'm not gonna throw any names out there, of course, but did find a little group of friends. But then again, not going to throw any names out there, of course, but did find a little group of friends, but then again there was still some gossip and judgment among them. I'm curious.

Speaker 1:

Did you find the bonding with that fringe group, this real connection? Even after, say, hazing or bullying, you find a connection with other people. After, say, hazing or bullying, you find a connection with other people. Did that bond seem larger, more important and more of a deeper connection than the ones you found at home, naturally, I guess. Would you compare them or were they similar?

Speaker 2:

They. I think a part of me was hoping for that deep connection and was just trying to search for it in anybody I could and anybody I could relate with at a young age. Because as I was growing up, I was dealing with if I can throw this out there an alcoholic mother and it was causing problems for stuff at home and I was trying to find, because there wasn't always a connection at home, because sometimes she was unavailable, and this is before you knew about being adopted. Yeah, this was before that.

Speaker 1:

And your mom presently is in years of recovery. Oh, countless now 10 plus years now, and she's been an ultimate force of producing your recovery.

Speaker 2:

That connection, I couldn't say anything less. One of the main reasons that I'm currently sober is because of my mom. I'm not saying that because she's the one keeping me sober, but one of the people that had my back through everything and continuously had support for me was my mom.

Speaker 1:

So I ask that question because there's a lot of research in bonding and research around people with addiction that especially meet it pre or during adolescence, where the bonding outside of the house becomes far more crucial and substantial and meaningful than something we wanted in the house and that bond and friendship is like born within addiction. So now you trust your group and what happens is the house house you have to keep secrets. Your real sincere self is now with this group, yeah, and that's. That's a real good breeding ground for an addiction to begin and flourish If real bonding happens outside of the house.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I I'd like to say that the addiction kind of started when I was around that age too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Tell me how that started. This is the most remarkable story I think you've ever told me. Where were you? A Boy Scout meeting or a camp? A weekend campground? Dad, father and son.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was at a, so do you want me to get into that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So the first time you use, tell me, set the stage, what is happening.

Speaker 2:

So I remember we were at a father-son weekend. It was all the guys in my grade and all the guys' dads, and the same thing happened for the females. They went somewhere and they did this stuff with their moms. But when we went to um, we were up in the Poconos and, uh, we were putting condominiums and each condominium had bottles of bottles of alcohol. Um, I don't remember exactly which ones there were, cause I was in eighth grade, but I remember that, just looking like along the sink, there was just countless bottles. I remember that, just looking like along the sink, there was just countless bottles. And I remember there was talk a little bit before we got to the weekend about like what we were going to do, and one of the guys in the group was like yo, like I have a cart, like I'm going to bring it up, and I was like all right, like I've never done it before. And he's like dude, it's great, like you're going to enjoy it.

Speaker 1:

What's a cart? A's? Uh, like a little weed thc pen. Oh, it's my that old, I know what a pen is a cart? Yeah, it's like a weed cartridge. You guys have taught me three new adjectives in the last two months I'm gas or fire, you're chatting torch, and now a cart. Okay, you're smoking a cart. And this isn't something with wheels. No, all right it's it.

Speaker 2:

It's a little oval, with like a tip on the top and you screw it into a pen and the pen cartridge.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, now I now I follow.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, okay. So there was a little bit of talk previous to us going down to the trip and he was like I'm going to bring it up, like if you want to use it, you can, and I was like, all, all right, like I'll think about it, so we get there. It's like the first night, I think. I don't remember how many days I was there, maybe two days.

Speaker 2:

Um, I don't remember if it was the first or second night that I did, but first day I remember we went either whitewater rafting or paintballing and it was a great experience. Oh yeah, it was the first day we went whitewater rafting and, um, I've been whitewater rafting before because I went to a camp previous and during this camp we went to like I'm trying to think of the rivers we went down. I can't remember, but we went down countless rivers whitewater rafting. We went multiple places. We did it countless times, so I'd probably been whitewater rafting at this point six, seven times. It was probably the Delaware yeah, delaware River, yeah, that was one of them Um think the Susquehanna too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, but yeah, about this time I'd already gone six, seven times Um and um. We kind of just chilled that night, we didn't do too much, we kind of played around a little bit with the alcohol, but we didn't really.

Speaker 1:

When did you first realize you're getting inebriated Like you're? There was a change of consciousness. Yeah, when did that happen? Can you pinpoint it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I remember we put them in little Gatorade bottles cause we had little Gatorade bottles in the fridge and um, we just like emptied out. We just drank like one of the Gatorade bottles and put some vodka in and mixed it with Gatorade and it was. It was awful, but I remember like a few sips in I started to get like a head rush.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I was like what is this? I was like is this how I feel, Like with this stuff, I like this.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Earth. Yeah, you've now arrived on.

Speaker 2:

Earth, yeah. But I remember I just got like a slight head buzz and I was starting to feel like what is going on. I was just like a little curious. I don't know. I don't really remember it was, it was, it was a while ago. How about the?

Speaker 1:

cartridge. Now, did you get high the first time you smoked? Um, I don't know if I got high, but you were. You were willing to try it and you're doing it.

Speaker 2:

I was out of myself for sure, Cause looking back, I actually have a picture in my phone of the first time I used and, like I did look pretty screwed up. Now I don't really remember if I got that screwed up, but like I, if I remember correctly, I do remember being outside myself. Okay.

Speaker 1:

Fear of consequences or the culture you grew up in? Um, why were you not afraid to use your dad's in proximity? It's a father and son weekend. Yeah, did you think it was a little?

Speaker 2:

acceptable? I didn't, I guess I just was like you didn't even consider it. There's really like there was really no thought behind it. Besides, let's do it.

Speaker 1:

And how old are you now Now's 19. So 19. And so far you've had a history of experiencing symptoms that could be dissatisfying, disrupting to academics, the ADD and the way you've always described them. It's more of an emotional component of security. Yeah, and this is the first time, 19, you get to get drunk and smoke pot within that month. What happened? Why did it make sense to be drunk or to smoke pot? How would you describe what was it giving?

Speaker 2:

you. It was giving me a sense of security. It made me feel now this might not make sense to certain people, but it made me feel like myself. Without it I kind of felt like I didn't fit in. I felt less lesser than other people. But when I had the drugs, when I was on the drugs, I was like I feel like the man, like everybody wants me because I have these things, like I feel like I'm fitting in and people actually want to be around me me. Because, like before, like it was always, like I always had like a poor sense of self because of getting bullied at a young age, of being told I wasn't who I I don't really know, but like being kind of just judged and just told that like who I was wasn't okay, like ever since that point, like I never really had a way to find myself, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I always just felt like off.

Speaker 1:

And your social circle and the schools you went to what would you call maybe the majority of the in-group Would they be was their social status more of a yuppie type higher socioeconomics.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, most of the kids that I got involved with during high school or middle school were of a higher socioeconomic status.

Speaker 1:

And you've described in the past. You felt like you almost had to do double to fit in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And this just rose up in you I mean, I'm still figuring this out currently, um, as to why I put on a facade and acted a different way, but I always felt like for me to do, or for me to fit in. I had to do better than other people so I'd be recognized and how would you describe alcohol?

Speaker 1:

If you had to describe drugs or alcohol as a solution to that exact feeling, was it helping initially?

Speaker 2:

It felt like it was Like before consequences started getting involved and my life started to flip itself upside down. I really thought it was the solution.

Speaker 1:

So summarize afterwards. You know, the end of high school, the entry into college, yeah, what is happening in regard to your addiction and how do the consequences of it begin to take effect to your family, your approach to school and your social circle? How would you summarize all that?

Speaker 2:

So, beginning of college, at that point I was in a relationship and at the time I thought it was healthy. And my senior year. I'll get into senior year a little bit to give a preview of what college looked like. Senior year I was smoking a lot, drinking a lot, pretty much every single day. I was going to school inebriated. I was going to practices inebriated. I was just getting screwed up. And are people noticing this? Yeah, I was getting told by friends like yo listen, you're showing up. But at the same time, the people I hung around, they were down for it. They, the people that hung around like they were down for it, like they were just encouraging, like they were just encouraging.

Speaker 1:

Joey, we noticed you're messed up and we're down for it. This is something we're down for.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, in other words, they were. They were open to doing it with me. So I was. I was around a group of guys that like knew that it was becoming a problem but didn't't, I guess, were in denial of the fact that it was a problem, and they just were just kind of continuing to do it with me. And a big part of the like, a big reason that they were continuing to do it with me, is because I was kind of like forcing it onto them, because, like I didn't want to feel like I was the only one doing the stuff, like I didn't want to feel like I had a problem. That's why I didn't want to be in like denial about it. So I was like all right, dude, like if I'm smoking, you got to smoke, and they'd be like dude, like I don't really want to smoke and I was like too bad.

Speaker 1:

And did they carry their own weight or did you have all the smoke?

Speaker 2:

It was, it was not. It was Santa Claus. Sometimes I was, other times I was like, other times it was pretty, even I wasn't. I mean, it got to a point where my one old friend would smoke constantly with me and he had his own stuff pretty regularly. There was only a few people in that little group that really did that.

Speaker 1:

How many of these people senior year were lifelong friends or still friends, or you've kind of grown apart, or maybe you were only bonding, because you were treating some deeper sense of not having a connection with self or other people without inebriation.

Speaker 2:

There's maybe one kid from that group that I still talk to today. Okay, yeah, out of probably the 25 kids, there's probably only one.

Speaker 1:

And how does senior year end and what's your plan? What were you starting to stake out as senior year started to wind down, and how did the adults around you, including your parents, when did they begin noticing that this was having an effect on the quality of your life, your relationships?

Speaker 2:

So, as senior year was winding down, I actually got suspended. I had alcohol in my bag, I was caught with a vape in school, so I got suspended for about a week. I couldn't go to my senior prom. I had to do like 40, 50 hours of community service to even graduate. I still barely graduated Cause you're flexing with that cart. Yeah, dude, the cart was everything? I guess no, but it was bad. I'm not going to really get too detail-y about what happened, but I did get, safe to say, which is an anonymous reporting website where it's like more for people that are like about to commit suicide and things around that Say the website again, safe to Say.

Speaker 1:

Safe to Say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And how is this website connected to your?

Speaker 2:

community. So it's like. It's like an anonymous website that I think the police or other people are involved in. So when they get anonymous tips about things that are like happening, like, let's say, like there was going to be like a shooting or something like someone would put a tip in and the police would be notified and it would. They would kind of like the police would come to the school or whatever.

Speaker 1:

So and so someone in your case was afraid for your mental health and that self-harm could be an option.

Speaker 2:

No, it was more about the drug use. I got they saved to save me for having drugs in school, which was a little bit left field. Someone late, yeah yeah, and got called down to the office. They were like, listen, we got a, we got a tip. We're not going to say by who, but do you have a vape on you? And I was just honest. I was like, yeah, I do. So I gave them my vape. They were like, all right, because of this. We got to search your bags and I was like, all right, that's fine, like I'm not worried about it. Little did I know there was little bottles of Fireball in my bag. They were empty. They were that St Patrick's day. I was drinking on St Patrick's day and I just threw those bottles in my bag and kind of forgot about them because I didn't want to throw them out in the trash can. So my parents didn't see them.

Speaker 1:

Let's go back to the admittance that you're like. Yeah, I got to vape, because I've spent months around you now and you've lied to me a handful of times, but they're like almost reactions, are without thought and they don't last longer than 24 hours. You hate lying? Yeah, did you hate it then having to hide or do anything with?

Speaker 2:

I've. I've always like, deep down, I'm an honest kid. Yeah, yes, you are. But I, whenever I get put into a position where I feel like I need to fit in, or I feel like I need to do something to be better than someone else or something around that, or even like like I need to do something to be better than someone else or something around that, or even like I'm trying to think about other situations, or just to save my own skin, like the first instinct is to lie. Yeah, just to be like oh no, I didn't do that.

Speaker 1:

Or oh, like it's almost avoidance, yeah, but I haven't seen that in a while.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's exciting because that's real brass, because you have a really connected and intact sense of self and I think you have a very promising future.

Speaker 2:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

And aside, let's go back to. We'll go back to the story. So safe to say, you're confronted at school.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Now this is exposed. Not only are you getting inebriated every day, the school administration knows you get suspended, you lose the chance to go to a prom, which is pretty substantial, for you know the standard memories and lifespan of an American male going to the prom, all the things that would be conventional memories for someone. Yeah, smoking pot now took that away, which wouldn't be like okay pot. You're going to OD on pot, but it's making your life, it's taking away quality of your life, which initially you described was giving you something a sense of security, connection and bonding.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it got to a point where I didn't fully realize it. Maybe I didn't, maybe it's not that I didn't realize. It's maybe that I didn't recognize the fact that it actually was starting to tear me apart little by little, because it's like everyone says, it's a slow progressive. Well, sometimes it's not slow, but my addiction was slow.

Speaker 1:

And let's talk about if you allow me to talk about the pot for an instance, is this coming from medical marijuana places? Is it Street stuff?

Speaker 2:

So we don't even know it probably had fentanyl in it, who knows yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean, let's dial it back, that it's not like a fentanyl, let's just say it's THC. You got cartridges that were probably ordered cheaply right.

Speaker 1:

And they're manufactured in China. I'm not trying to be a lunatic, but you know there was a wave of them in 2018 to 2020 that were being correlated to severe respiratory illness, be it pneumonia, double pneumonia, getting vapor in the lungs. Acetane was in the glass carts, the cartridges stored as a lubricant. Sometimes they were in tobacco products and THC products. Okay, and now you're inhaling them. No one's regulating these pens, unlike having a medical marijuana card, say yeah, but both of them have this distinct status now that we've never faced in history of marijuana, say, let's just talk about it. In the last 100 years, THC is now up to 400 times more potent. This doesn't happen in the natural order of the world. No, this is engineered THC.

Speaker 1:

At these counts and you can refer to a lot of research at Stanford that high amount and toxicity in the head, the potency with either strand sativa or indica, or most of them are just blended now is creating, yeah, Like the early feelings of psychosis. Beyond just your marginal paranoia, what are people thinking? I'm taking in way too much information socially. It's bugging me out. I gotta be you know. I gotta hit an Xbox controller or just zone out for a second and it's taking all this data into your brain that a sober mind knows how to mute and edit. So life is just tolerable. You could just pay attention to what's relevant. Yeah, so you could be a functional human mind being stoned.

Speaker 1:

There's a quality with that high amount of THC that you now can't edit, that naturally You're taking in hypersensitive information of people's eye contact, their body language and if you have addiction and trauma, you're making yourself the subject of the room, this self-centeredness that comes with that kind of pain. So the insecurities your insecurities get wildly out of control of being bugged out. Yeah, this is increasing into some dramatic effects. The amount of ER visits in the last three years related to THC and presentations of psychosis are growing exponentially every year because of the hypotesis. So for a nerd alert, I just wanted to put that in because I don't want to be square in the sense that marijuana I never viewed my entire life as like a dangerous drug. For most people it's a dangerous of why we would need to use it clinically. I would say that. So it's not marijuana If anyone was listening, in the sense of the dirt weed we smoked in the nineties.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean from experience. I've seen carts with up to a hundred 105% THC. Oh crazy, it's ridiculous and I'm like Holy, what is in these?

Speaker 1:

My friend, this young guy he's dead now Great guy Met him in AA. He was on a relapse, stopped at my house, was traveling cross country. Yeah, he drank a soda that he had in his pack from Colorado or some ungodly amount of THC, I don't even know Just eat a jar of acid at this point, like what the fuck man Like he drank that. 20 minutes later he's vomiting in my landscaping. Oh my God.

Speaker 1:

He was stoned for like over like 30 hours. I mean like incoherently high, holy shit, from a pot soda. Yeah, I mean it was like, yeah, it was like hundreds of milligrams, it's huge. Like how could that even like I've been that high from an edible I'm not enjoying myself, I am. No, I don't know if I'm the drapes in the room, I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dude, I have a I've. I had a story about um. When I was in college, I took a 1200 milligram edible. Oh God, joey.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, why do you think you take the risk to go that far, like so? Not that you would OD, but where do you want to go? What is the draw, this driving force that, okay, this is Joe sober. Yeah, joe, with 1200 milligrams. Because with 1,200 milligrams? Because there's something that is being drawn for an addict. That's when any drug. Well, if I do 1,200, what do you become?

Speaker 2:

What are you looking for? A zombie dude.

Speaker 1:

So almost to stop the pain of being human.

Speaker 2:

In a sense. I mean, I just I loved being so out of myself that I had no control. Yeah, like I remember, I took the edible at 9 pm the night before and I waited up until 12 o'clock in the morning and it didn't kick in, right. So I go to bed. I'm like all right. It was just like my tolerance was ridiculously high. So I just thought, like my tolerance was so high that I couldn't get high from the edible. So I go to sleep and as soon as I wake up, dude, I put my feet on the floor. He kicks in it Like it rocked my world.

Speaker 2:

Dude, I'm like it got to a point where I was so like I was so stoned that like my breathing was manual oh yeah, that's awful. Yeah, and I was like I was Don't forget to breathe now. And I was looking everywhere. I was like yo, is this person looking at me? Are they looking at how I'm walking? Am I walking the right way? Like I was. I was out of it, dude. It was bad and I went to class on it and I remember it was. It was, it was rough, it was bad.

Speaker 1:

During that time where, where we were ending in and you're making this entry into the summer pre-college, emotionally, do you feel alienated now that you've been exposed, or was there kind of this I don't know spectacle around you getting caught with that? Were you proud of it? Was it making your life more difficult? And where are your parents now? Are the terms of living at home changing that, going into your freshman year?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So freshman year, um, I was getting caught pretty regularly, um, when I was still at home before I went to the dorms and it was just making life a little bit of a living hell, um got my car taken, phone taken, kind of everything was just being taken away from me. My parents were getting at this point. They were like all right, like maybe he's just. I don't really know what was going through their heads. I can't really know that, but my guess would be like all right, maybe he's just experimenting a good bit, maybe he just likes it. I don't know. But I don't know if they necessarily thought I was like I was at that level yet where I was like, oh, he needs help. I don't think they were at that level yet, but I think it was getting to a point where they were getting pretty concerned.

Speaker 1:

They're seeing if they could squeeze this kind of rut out of you with some consequences, and we kind of do know what's in their head now?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, They've expressed this. Yes, they have. Yeah, but my parents were getting concerned.

Speaker 1:

What's your reaction to this do? Are you drawing away from them? Are? Are you resentful? Uh, is there. Do you think this will end, or is it? Is it confusing you?

Speaker 2:

no, it was. Uh, I was. I was probably a little resentful because I was like, oh, they're getting in the way of my use, like da, da da, and I also think, um, let me see were any of your other friends experiencing these consequences in their houses?

Speaker 1:

Not really.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there was very few kids who were getting caught or were doing it as regularly as I was. I was like kind of the odd one out. All right, yeah, you stood apart. Yeah, everyone was kind of like in their own little group of like use, like they would only use on weekends or they would only use like on special occasions. And I'm just over here getting fried every single day. All these borders have dropped down for you yeah.

Speaker 2:

Completely just isolating in my room, just getting high, going to the gym, getting high, like everything I did. I was high.

Speaker 1:

What's this doing to your cognition? Not your intellect, but your ability to command your attention. So you've gone through adolescence where you were experiencing symptoms of ADD not being able to direct attention or find meaning because of other stimuli is just demanding a broad spotlight or lantern attention. I would say when is it at now, going into college? My cognition? Yeah. The ability to use executive function like complex one-year planning. Okay, pick your classes in August. Yeah, well, it's now September. Like, are you waiting for someone else to do this?

Speaker 2:

I mean nowadays I'm able to take charge and do those things. After being sober for a little while, I've started to get that executive function back. I've been able to take charge with my classes.

Speaker 1:

I'm almost done with all my classes now and that's a semester you saved yeah, not yet, but when I finish it, let's get to that. I want to describe that because that's a huge layup. I mean that's a big save. That, because that's that's a huge layup, I mean you, that's a big save. Oh, financially for your parents and for your timeline to have a full-bodied life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I I screwed up pretty hard in the uh. It wasn't necessarily the second semester that I was screwing up, it was mainly the first. The first was it was awful, uh, if I even had the chance to go back and change it like I would, but I would hate it because I'd hate it you did Well, yes, but I mean, this is how time works.

Speaker 1:

You fixed it in the real world, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, it's just like I'm grateful that that period of my life is over. Yeah, seriously, because it was. It was getting to a point where it was just a living hell.

Speaker 1:

You're drinking excessively now and using pot. Where are you emotionally when you're not drinking? I'm emotionally numb. And where are your relationships? How would you describe the stability of your friendships, your romantic relationships? How much of your life have they taken over?

Speaker 2:

The romantic relationship they took over a good bit. Yeah, um, it's. It's not necessarily a problem currently, but recently it was a one major issue. It was holding me back consistently. I wasn't able to, uh, to get past that little, that little divot in the ground of just like kind of pushing past that and actually letting go. And I keep seeing these things on Instagram and Tik TOK and everywhere. It's like sometimes letting go is the actual best way to show that person that you love them you know, so like what do you think that means?

Speaker 2:

I mean, if you really love that person, you wouldn't put them through the pain that they're currently going through. And I was putting my significant other through pain and the same thing was going the other way around, and I mean I, and no one calls you Joey TikTok anymore here, how did you enter treatment?

Speaker 1:

What were the events and what converged before you were sent to treatment? Yeah, how did that happen?

Speaker 2:

Okay, so let's see, college was in itself was a whole episode of just screw ups and just, just, just just I don't even know the word for it Just negative outcomes. Everything was just negative. I mean, there was, I guess I could say, fun in quotations, but it really wasn't fun looking like all it was was sex, drugs, not going to class um robbing people. Basically, I had guns pointed at me multiple times. It was just like I was, my life was.

Speaker 1:

Were these other students with guns, yeah, or were they outside?

Speaker 2:

of the school. They were outside of the school, but some of them were actual students. I would go over to their dorm. One of the guys pulled a gun, put it to my forehead and said listen, if you don't give me the money and this isn't gang- activity.

Speaker 1:

These are just. These are just kids, yeah, like Pretty reckless stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, really dangerous stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

They were bringing guns into the dorms, Like it was. It was pretty frightening, dude. Yeah Felt that my life was in danger a few times. You know, and looking back on it, I'm just glad to be alive, Because if I didn't pay up or if I didn't get away with some of the stuff, I got away with.

Speaker 1:

I'd probably be in a lot more trouble now than I was, and were these debts of drug use and gambling.

Speaker 2:

No, no gambling, just drug use. I never really got into gambling. Actually, I don't even think I've ever gambled in my life.

Speaker 1:

You know, you're just a finance major.

Speaker 2:

Measured.

Speaker 1:

Measured, measured gambling measured.

Speaker 2:

Yes, ai will take care of that for all of us. But, yeah, you said you wanted to talk about the how did how did you? How'd you go to treatment? Yeah, so, like I said, college was a whole event of just mishaps. Um, my second semester, I actually got sober between December and February 26 ish it's 25th ish and, um, I were relapsed pretty hard. Well, actually, let me think it was actually more December 21st to February 17th Um, that whole week before I relapsed hard, I was just I was drinking, but I wasn't considering it a relapse because drinking wasn't currently my drug of choice, it was weed. So I was like, oh, I can drink, I just can't smoke. Like California sober, but the opposite way. You know what I mean. And, um, I was just constantly drinking. My parents went off to Germany at this time and I had the house to myself for two weeks, right, yeah, and I was inviting girls over, I was inviting people over to my house just getting blackout drunk almost every night. And it got to a point where it was February 26th, right, my parents had one more day before they came back from Germany. I think it was actually the last day that they were in Germany and I was currently.

Speaker 2:

I was still in the relationship and I. We got into an argument. Sorry, my brain went blank for a second. We got into an argument. She decided to go out. I was like, all right, if you're going out, I'm going out Because I had already been drinking. So I was like all right, I'll just go out, I'll party a little bit, I'm not going to get too drunk, I'm not going to drive whatever. So I go over to my boy's house I'm putting that in buddy.

Speaker 2:

Um went over to his house, we got, we pre-gamed the party, as most teenagers do, pre-game the party. Um, and we were actually heading over into philly because we were going to a frat at drexel. And um, um, they were like all right, like, because at the time I one of my friends, had a real nice audi and my other friend had a real nice infinity, right, so. So I was like kind of the lower end of those three. So they're like all right, joey, you're driving. And I was like, no, I'm not driving. They're like, well, we're not taking the Audi, we're not taking the infinity. So I was like all right, fine, I'll drive, like I've done this countless times before, like I'll be fine, 30 packs. And um, we get down into Drexel and we parked right in front of the frat, like literally. Like the door was here, the car was right here, Like exactly, well, the people can't see that, but um, literally it's just directly in front of the frat and, um, we go in.

Speaker 2:

Party was pretty dead. Um, it was mostly just like all guys. There was really no girls. And then about an hour into the party, like 50 girls walked in right and everyone was just getting lit and they were all cops, they were all fbi, yes, no, but uh, the party started popping off a little bit. Um, everyone was getting drunk and it was at this time when I actually up and there was like halfway through the party up until like when it was boring, like I was sober, um, but as soon as it started getting like pretty riled up in there and everything, everyone was kind of like dancing to music. The music was blasting, like stimulus accelerates use.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2:

And um, my friend was like, all right, I'm gonna go grab his beers. And I was like, nah, I'm good dude. He was like I'm gonna grab you one. So I was okay, so it grabs me one. And I'm sitting there and I'm looking at it and I was like, ah, I got to drive tonight. I was like, all right, I won't get too screwed up tonight, I'll just drink a little bit. So I have one beer and I'm like, all right, I want another one, right? So one turns into two, two turns into four, four turns into eight, and I'm about screwed up. It was not a good sight.

Speaker 2:

I don't really remember too much of the party, but I do remember at one point of the party we started leaving and one of the girls there was actually kind of sick. She had alcohol poisoning so I was taking care of her. She was thrown up outside of my car, all over my car, in my car. It was disgusting, dude. And I was like, oh, you're good, just sit in my car because it's warm, like it was.

Speaker 2:

I don't remember exactly what time it was. I think it was, um, yeah, february ish. So it was kind of cold out. But um, she was sitting in my car with the heat and um, eventually her friends came out and they're like all right, we'll take her, we're taking her to the hospital. So I was like all right, so they take her to the hospital and me and my boys leave. And there's in my car, there's three boys and two girls. I'm sitting in the front, one of my boys is sitting in the front, and then the two girls are sitting in the back next to each other and my boy's kind of sitting on the side and I drive to Widener University. I drive to. Where did I go? I went to Widener, went back into into philly, went back to like so you're driving all over.

Speaker 2:

I drove two and a half hours that night an hour and a half that night, yeah, and I'm about, I'm now I'm by myself, after I drop all these people off and at that time I got to my boy's house and he's like yo, like if you want, you can stay here, like you can stay the night, like you'll be fine, like just, you've been driving a lot, I don don't want you to like I don't know, I don't want you to blackout and crash, and I was like I'll be fine, dude, like I've done this so many times, I'm not going to blackout, like I got this. So I'm driving home, I'm probably about five minutes outside of my house and I'm on the phone with the person I was in the relationship with, just talking, like trying to keep myself awake, and I'm two turns away from my house and I black out, straight blackout, and I wake up. I don't. I don't remember anything of it, but I was out for three hours just on the side of the road. My car wasn't in park, it was in drive and I was just somehow stopped on the side of the road. But from when I went out remember driving, I was on the opposite side of the road when I woke up.

Speaker 2:

And I woke up and I kind of like pick my head up and I look at the clock and it's five, 30 in the morning and the last time that I saw was two 30 and I was like what happened? Where am I? And I like pick my head up very slowly and I like it was an instant Like as soon as I picked my head up, boom, just ran straight into a concrete pole going 60 miles an hour, um, ran through a fence and totaled my car. Um, I didn't even realize what happened at the time. I was so drunk that, like I didn't even think that what happened happened. I thought it was a dream.

Speaker 2:

So I drive home, but I was so drunk that I took the long way home instead of taking the one turn to get to my house. I took like a 15 minute, 15 minute drive to get home instead of a three minute drive. So I finally get home. I parked my car and I'm like holy shit, like this is real. Like I get out of the car and I look at it and I'm like holy shit, like this is bad.

Speaker 2:

So I sent a picture to my parents and my parents are freaking out and it's this whole thing and I'm like, all right, I got to go to bed. So I go to bed, I wake up three hours later to someone walking into my room making sure I'm not bleeding to death Cause, like and this was a neighbor, this was a friend of my mom's from the rooms and they come into the house, they come into my room. They're like yo, are you good? Like I wake up drunk and I'm like, yeah, I'm fine, like I don't know what happened last night, but like, yeah, I'm good. And they were like, dude, you smashed your car pretty good. And I'm like, damn it, like that actually happened.

Speaker 1:

And when did treatment become the discussion? How did this become the clear direction of where you were headed?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, After all that happened, after the cops came, did their thing, gave me the charges that I was given, it got to a point where my parents were like yo, you, you need help. And I was like no, I don't, like I can do this myself, Like I got this. So from February 27th, oh, you're right, joey.

Speaker 1:

Yet again, darn it, damn it. I'm so confused about you, sorry for cursing on the podcast.

Speaker 2:

You can curse, okay. Okay, I just didn't know. So between February 27th, 28th to March 20th, it was a constant talk about treatment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and.

Speaker 2:

I was just like guys, I got this, like I can do this. Meanwhile I'm still isolating in my room getting high like 24 seven, I'm not doing anything. I'm not even going to the gym, like that's a major sign of when, like I'm in active addiction, or when I'm about to be in active addiction, I don't go to the gym, like I'll just completely, I'll say screw it to my, to my physical and mental health. I'll just say whatever. So it's about March 21st, I'd say March 22nd, and I'm having a therapy session and my therapist goes listen, we can get you in tomorrow. I think that's what's the like, what the best idea is.

Speaker 1:

And what was therapy producing then?

Speaker 2:

Therapy at that point was just what was the goal? I don't even know An active addiction, Like I was just lying to my therapist.

Speaker 1:

It's just a point of contact because of the worries everyone's having, but you didn't feel any kind of linear goals you were trying to achieve there. It was just was it to appease, like the?

Speaker 2:

pressures that were coming, it was mostly to comply. Plus, I enjoyed talking to my therapist but at the same time, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't get into how deep my that like my addiction actually was, like I wasn't really talking about it Was your therapist sharing information with your parents. Yeah, Only if he would ask me, he'd be like yo listen, is it cool if I share this information with mom and dad? I'd be like yes, or I'd be like no, just the good stuff.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so you're getting ready to go to treatment. How do you find the treatment center, and which one?

Speaker 2:

So I remember there was one night in specific it was like a few days before that whole turnout with my therapist and I come home from IOP, myop, and um, I look I walk in and my dad's sitting in the front, like the living room, with a computer open, sitting on a pedestal in front of him and he's like joey, I want you to come look at this. So I'm like okay. So I come look at it and it says karen, you know, like the karen treatment facility. And I'm like, oh, what is this? And he's like we think it's, we think it's time you go to treatment. And I was like like, oh, dude, like nah, it's fine, like I'll just go to sober living and I'll figure it out. Like cause it was, it was a discussion between like rehab or sober living, right Cause I was like, all right, if I do sober living for three months, like I'll, I'll be good, I'll get, I'll get it done. I was like I'm not going to rehab and, um, my dad's like, listen, I think it'd be a really good idea. And like that night has stuck with me for like a while now. So that was, that was the real night when I first like when I first saw it and I was like I have, no, I really don't have a choice anymore. And that's kind of the first time that I gave a little bit of a surrendering, like action to to my addiction.

Speaker 2:

So March 22nd happens and they're like yo, we're going to my therapist is like yo, we're going to get you in tomorrow. So I'm like all right, whatever, like I've really don't want to do this, like let me get, let me get another chance, like I can do this. I had my phone, take my phone, like I'm fine. And um, it was, it was. It was just a complete just shot in the dark just to see if they would actually allow me to do that. And um, they're like we're going to get you in tomorrow. So the next day comes and my parents and I are packing all my stuff and um, they were like all right, today, like you don't have to say yes to treatment, we just want you to go, we want you to check it out, we want you to just kind of get a feel of what it would look like to be at a treatment center. I'm like, okay, if I don't have to say yes, I'll go. So I go, we drive. I don't know how far it was Two hours, maybe Two hours to Warnersville from Westchester, yeah, so about two hours.

Speaker 2:

We get there and I remember the first person who greeted us. I'm not going to throw any names out there, but I remember the first person who greeted us. He actually came in the other day and I said what's up to him? And yeah, yeah, and I remember he greeted me and he was like hey, you new here. And I was like I don't know, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just here to look around. We're here for the mini golf, yeah, we're here for the complimentary.

Speaker 2:

And he kind of he took me and my parents around the the campus, we'll call it, and he took me to the room where I'd be staying in and I didn't even realize at the time that that was the room that I was going to be staying and I was just going. He's just showing us a random room. Yeah, keep them, keep my, my name's already on the board, like I'm already signed into this place. Basically, like, just, not to my knowledge from your intake, you only need one day. Yeah, one day and you'll be okay. And, um, I, I, I, we were in. I remember we were in the cafeteria and my parents look at me and they're like listen, like we really think you need this. We're going to drive away.

Speaker 1:

We'll see you in 30 days.

Speaker 2:

No they were like listen, we, I really think you need this. And I was like I, I really don't want to. And they're like please. And my mom starts to like to tear up a little bit, and I saw that and I'm like oh shit, yeah, I'll stay. So that was like I didn't surrender, but I accepted it.

Speaker 1:

It's amazing you stayed and you stayed the full term. Yes, I did, and you almost left multiple times. Yeah, that is true. So, Joey, you had a meaningful experience at Karen. Yes, I did. I get a call that someone really beats the criteria for PHP partial hospitalization, living 30, 90 days sober living.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

We hate to do this to you, joe, but this might be a tough case. Yeah, he's very likely A not going to come there, because you called twice and we screened you twice, yeah, and you were getting. You had some attitude on the phone. Yeah, I told you hey, man, you don't have to come here at all, we're not selling cars. Yeah, and the probability and you gave me permission to talk about this is that you were high AMA risk and what that means is against medical advice you would leave, yeah, and you arrived here and that was the case. I figured Joe's going to be a short stay. I didn't want to over promise anything to your parents. It did not. The probability of you staying here was very low. But you had a change at the last moment to come here and that change got interrupted with the phone and connections to the past. And that change got interrupted with the phone and connections to the past. But in all probability, it's now been months and you're ready to graduate. You've made enormous changes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You are quintessentially what the program was designed for and we just went by the numbers of the program here and it really transformed your entire. You did it, not me, Transform where you're going to school.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You have a new circle of meaningful friends. You've had loss here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You lost friends to addiction here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You got real, serious and empowered your life to be your own life and your own executive function. Did you think that was going to happen here when you met me and I had you? When did the turning point start, or was it incremental?

Speaker 2:

So I remember the first day I was here, it was. I got here on a Friday and I was like all right it's the worst.

Speaker 1:

We never like intakes on Fridays because of you.

Speaker 2:

So I get here on a Friday and little did I know, I didn't know the weekends were going to be as as relaxed as they were. And I'm like, all right, like I remember the Friday night meeting. I started talking to the meeting and I was like, all right guys, like I'm really going to try. Like I started talking to the meeting and I was like, all right guys, like I'm really going to try. Like I remember that I sat down and all the boys were there and there was a few extra people there and I was like guys, like I want to be a part of this community. Like I know I just got here but I really do.

Speaker 2:

And then the next day I tried to leave. Yeah, that that was. That was a real quick change of events. I woke up the next morning and I got a text from someone in the past and, um, they kind of convinced me that I didn't need help. After everything I've been through, even after going to treatment, everything, I still was like, oh, maybe, maybe they're right, maybe I don't need help, maybe that all this was just an accident and I, I really don't have a problem, you know. And um, uh, that that said person was like, all right, I'll come pick you up right now and you just pack your bags and we can leave. And I was like, all right, sounds good. So I start packing all my bags and my roommate at the time comes in and he's like, dude, where are you going? And I'm like, oh, I'm leaving. He's like what You're leaving? I was like, yeah, I'm leaving this place helped me out a lot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, dude, I'm ready to go, I'm, I'm, I'm cured. And, um, he's like dude, what do you mean? You're leaving? I'm like dude, I just I don't, I don't need to be here. Like I already went through treatment, like I got enough help, like I'm good, if I went home I would have been. So, all right, dude, like I really don't think it's a good idea for you to leave. I really would encourage you to stay. Um, but you feel you you do what you feel you need to do. And I was like okay. So another another one of the guys from the house comes in who's now moved on from the house, and, um, he was like hey, like I heard you're trying to leave.

Speaker 2:

I was like, yeah, I'm trying to get out of here. He's like well, I see that we're about to shave your head, aren't you going to join? And he was like dude, I really, I really don't think it's a good idea for you to leave. And I was like, well, I'm sorry man, I'm sorry brother, but like I just I'm good, like I got this under control, like I'm going to be able to complete this myself. It was like I've heard that before and that's not the case. You're not going to be able to do this yourself. And I was like, all right, whatever, like I'm going to show you.

Speaker 2:

So I remember I go outside and I'm waiting for this person to come pick me up and like I get a call. Well, I don't. I don't really remember exactly what happened, but I remember me and you ended up in the same room and we started talking to my parents and my mom and my mom was like dude, like please, like I need this, this is gonna help, this is gonna screw up my recovery. And I remember saying like I don't give a fuck about your recovery, like I remember saying that. And I was like now looking back on it, I'm like wow, I really said that just because of how self-centered and how, like, how manipulated I was thinking that I didn't have a problem. It made me shut on my mom even then.

Speaker 1:

Or the consideration that it's really hard to have for others when you're the subject of all your own pain and we're just extras in your movie.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That was a bridge too far to speak that way to someone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's hard for me to watch or even to tolerate someone to see so much care and how broken, and I knew you didn't have the capacity at that moment to see. But that's when I committed. I knew you would stay another day. I can help you if you just keep meeting me halfway.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

This community can help you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I remember we, uh, we had that talk. We were like, joe, just promise your mom that you'll stay another day. And I was like, all right, fine, like I'm going to stay. And I stayed another day and we had to talk again. You were like, just promise me you'll stay another day. I was like, okay, so the we get past the weekend. And I was like you know what, this place isn't too bad, right. And I remember the first week, um, it was pretty quiet. Uh, I had, yeah, I had a, I had group every single day. Um, and I remember it was about Thursday or Friday. I was starting to get like a remembrance of something One of the friends in rehab did, and that was, um, he would snort well, butrin. And um, I was like, ooh, like I have a full bottle of it. Like why don't I just try it? Like it's not a relapse, it's just it's. It's just I'm just experimenting, stupid, right. And um, I remember it was about half a week later not even it was that, it was that next Monday and um, I relapsed you know, and uh

Speaker 2:

it was, it was. It was a rough two weeks from that point on, because I just hit it, I didn't, I didn't say anything about it and, uh, it was only until I got confronted that I was open and honest and even then, like I still deflected, you know, still had that addict mentality, still was just trying to buy to save my own skin even though there was no point, you know, and it was definitely an incremental change, me changing my life. It wasn't like it, just I just gave up overnight. It was definitely.

Speaker 1:

Give it a choice after hiding that. Yeah, I don't believe in cruelty.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

For someone relapsing with untreated addiction. Yeah, but I do believe in keeping a community safe 100%, if we put that on you and you had to come before the group. Yeah, I think that's when everything started to change. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2:

That was definitely a major point in where I like when I had to face it and when I had to tell everybody what I did, there was that accountability there and that showed me a little bit of what being sober was like taking accountability for your screw-ups.

Speaker 1:

And they were okay with you still living here, yeah, which I'm still grateful for.

Speaker 2:

You know, thinking back on it, like they could have been. Like if he's going to do that, then he's just a wild card, we don't want him here. Like they could have easily done that. I would have been homeless.

Speaker 1:

I would have, might have and I would have to listen to that, yeah, but since then a real, a real change happened, I think, is that you took not only your involvement here seriously, but your involvement with your recovery community.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Real honest amends and you salvaged that semester. Once we got you stable, with the idea that you decided you wanted to be in recovery, we started to really look at a life that maybe you wanted to change 100%, and now you're moving here. Yeah, started to really look at a life that maybe you want it to change A hundred percent, and now you're moving here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, dude, it's three months and counting. Now I think I have about 107 days sober now, getting close to that four months. Dude, it's, it's, it's a blessing, dude, it really is.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm proud of you, Um, and I'm glad to get to tell your story here. And what would you say, you know, to yourself on day one, when you were ready to leave, from calls, cruelty, um, and disregard for your parents' emotions and feelings, we got past that and really considering that you were starting to make decisions for an entire life, not a day, that's a real liberty, that's agency, and I've seen you obtain that and we're all very proud of you. What would you say to yourself when you arrived here? How would you have talked yourself off that porch? That day?

Speaker 2:

I got in your grill oh, dude, I don't even know what I would have said to myself, because even if I, like, really did sit myself down and I talked to myself about it, I don't even know if I would have listened.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to tell you something. Joey, in the in the next year, you're going to have that chance to do that, it's just going to be a Joey by a different name.

Speaker 1:

The leadership that you show now in the house. You meet new guys all the time. You're talking to yourself. Helping another alcoholic helps us. That's the paradox of the program. I look forward. Helping another alcoholic helps us. That's the paradox of the program. So I look forward to what the rest of your year is going to look like. We're very proud of you. We can't wait to coin you out soon, when that day is coming.

Speaker 2:

So is there any parting ideas or thoughts you'd like to say? Yeah, sure, um, yeah, I mean, if it wasn't for this house and the people here, I would still be. I would probably be there's. No, probably I'd be homeless and I'd be using and my life would be utter hell. And because I made that promise to you on day one that I give it a chance, I was able to transform my life completely. Now, outside forces they don't really get to me. Yeah, I think about them, but it's getting to a point where they're not changing my emotions, they're not affecting my mental. It's getting to a point now where I'm able to make conscious decisions instead of decisions with an illusion over it. I'm able to see the truth in people. Now I'm able to see, as you say, who's asleep and who's awake. Somewhat, I'm starting to realize that when I go to meetings, I'm starting to really see like, oh, okay this person's really not awake yet.

Speaker 2:

So being able to tell that I'm making that progress, it's really just showing me, it's making me even believe even harder, that this program really, really, really works. And I'm just grateful that I'm still here, you know, grateful that I'm able to stay. I'm grateful that my parents have the financial stability to be able to put me in a place like this, because without it I'd be, I'd be screwed.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, we're glad to have your brother. Yes, sir, well, I'll talk to you later tonight, all right, I'll talk to you later tonight, all right. I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of All Better. You can find us on allbetterfm or listen to us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, google Podcasts, stitcher, iheartradio and Alexa. Special thanks to our producer, john Edwards, and engineering company 570 Drone. Please like or subscribe to us on YouTube, facebook, instagram or Twitter and, if you're not, on social media, you're awesome. Looking forward to seeing you again. And remember, just because you're sober doesn't mean you're right.