Empathy and Outreach in the Recovery Journey

What happens when an aspiring fashion professional finds her true calling in the heart of the addiction recovery world? Join us as Kingsley Schwartz, Business Development Director of Bright Life Recovery, takes us through her transformative journey. From her own struggles with addiction to a pivotal turning point at age 27, Kingsley sheds light on the challenges and triumphs in finding the right rehab facilities. Her personal story and professional insights provide a unique perspective on the role of community outreach and aftercare in preventing relapse, making this a must-listen for anyone invested in recovery.

Discover the vibrant recovery community in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and its vital role in fostering long-term sobriety. We delve into how peer-to-peer support organizations like AA and NA offer essential services, especially for those grappling with agnosticism or atheism in a 12-step program. Kingsley reflects on the significant contributions of women in recovery and the powerful legacy of specialized treatment programs. Through her experiences, we explore the indispensable benefits of community support and the ongoing commitment to spreading the message of recovery and wellness.

Finally, immerse yourself in the innovative approach of Bright Life Recovery, where nature-informed therapy is at the core of their treatment philosophy. Kingsley discusses the integratio

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Chapters

• 0:46 Journey From Addiction to Recovery
• 14:16 The Impact of Scranton Recovery Community
• 23:27 The Role of Outreach in Recovery
• 33:54 Nature-Informed Therapy at Bright Life
• 46:39 Sharing Appreciation and Goodies

Transcript

Joe Van Wie: 0:47

Hello and thanks again for listening to another episode of All Better. I'm your host, joe Van Lee. Today's guest has a very regal and bohemian name, one of my favorite names to say. Today you'll get to meet Kingsley Schwartz. She's the Business Development Director of Bright Life Recovery, which we will talk about. Anytime I call Kingsley, I always say who the shit is Kingsley Zissou and anyone a fan of Life Aquatic knows what I'm saying.

Joe Van Wie: 1:28

Kingsley has a background in business development, community outreach, with experience in various industries such as healthcare and legal services. Kingsley has a Bachelor of Science in Arts Administration that she received from Wagner College. Kingsley has demonstrated skills in maintaining positive community relations, expanding referral bases for treatment providers and contributing to many marketing plans. She served as an account manager to a visual merchandiser. Kingsley has a diverse skill set that includes managing confidential information, social media strategy planning and assisting in public relation tasks. I'm going to summarize that from a site called theorgcom. Today we get to do a deep dive on how Kingsley herself entered recovery, how she was drawn to this field and became one of the most notable and cheerful and helpful outreach and business development directors one can run into in the Northeast. So I'm very excited for you to meet Kingsley Schwartz. Kingsley Schwartz All right, we're here, we're at Kingsley Schwartz. Kingsley has a very interesting story of how she landed into her present career, and I think that's where I want to begin, because this is a large industry that most people outside of recovery or their families don't understand.

Joe Van Wie: 3:14

So how do you find a rehab? What's the right fit for a loved one or yourself? These are really broad questions, because treatment to substance use disorder is. It could be broad. Now, there could be a lot of different places and, like in all cultures, some of it's tied to socioeconomics. Do you have private insurance? Are you Medicaid? Are you broke, are you destitute? And there seems to be services and providers that kind of fall in the lanes of this. That's one oddity maybe we could talk about and how one navigates that. But how did you get called to? And I'm not going to call it a career, I'm going to call it what you said earlier when we were off mic. You said a calling, a vocation. It's a calling. How did you know you were going to work in the field, specifically in what we call outreach? How do you get people into treatment and in contact with the right provider? How did you know you were going to do this.

Kingsley: 4:25

I had no idea, had no idea, literally no idea, when I was growing up or when I went to college. If you asked me what I wanted to be when I grow up, what I went to school for business development director at a treatment center, community outreach and a drug and alcohol rehab I'd never heard of that. Yeah, did you.

Joe Van Wie: 4:55

Well, you're talking the wrong way. I did at 16. Okay.

Kingsley: 4:59

All right.

Joe Van Wie: 4:59

But most people don't yeah, most people don't know what this is.

Kingsley: 5:04

If it would have been up to me. I always said like I would have loved to live in a penthouse apartment in New York City and work for a fashion magazine. All right.

Joe Van Wie: 5:16

So you knew ideally what life, what you would want the life to look like visually Some misty vision.

Kingsley: 5:23

Yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 5:23

Of where you wanted to live. The fashion industry is, you know, exciting. It wasn't this?

Kingsley: 5:31

It wasn't this, it wasn't this, and I guess how I was called to do this was by no power of my own or plan. And while I was doing all of that, dreaming or wishing, I was also in active addiction.

Joe Van Wie: 5:53

Yeah.

Kingsley: 5:53

Right, um. So how I ended up here was ultimately, I was in crisis.

Joe Van Wie: 6:04

Yeah.

Kingsley: 6:05

Like most individuals and families are when they're faced with the terrifying realities of addiction and kind of facing death and some scary scary stuff. I ended up in a situation or at the end of a process of drinking and using drugs where I needed help and had went to like my family.

Joe Van Wie: 6:43

Can I ask how old you were?

Kingsley: 6:44

27.

Joe Van Wie: 6:46

27. Did you have to go to multiple treatment centers?

Kingsley: 6:51

No, I went to one treatment. Well, in the beginning I went to one primary care inpatient standard 30 day. So 30 days, this included.

Joe Van Wie: 7:17

Maybe like to go to a halfway house. Um, what did you think about that one that like? Did you know that was coming at the end of your stay?

Kingsley: 7:24

so when I was in treatment they kept utilizing this well, two terms. They were using this word, relapse, um, and then they were using this other word, aftercare, were like two loud messages when I was in rehab and I was really, to be frank, petrified of both of those things that are very starkly different, you know, relapse and aftercare. And I was in the middle, at like a turning point in treatment, point in in treatment. So when I was in treatment I was very driven to, I don't know, figure it out, take control of my life, get an A plus Um yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 8:28

Is that what drove you earlier? Say, the first 27 years. Did you feel a lot of your plans would have to be validated? Because I could relate to that Like I want anything. I'm putting effort into Some external validation for people who have substance use disorder. When you first put down your drug of choice or you're committed to the rollercoaster ride of early recovery that wakes back up, I want immediate validation for all my efforts. It did in me. So if you have high internal motivation while you're in an inpatient, it can help, like that's what I'm hearing you describe. Like okay, I'm going to go to a halfway house because I want to do this right, I don't want to. You said the words that pointed out were relapse aftercare, aftercare.

Kingsley: 9:29

So this common messages yeah, oh, my God, there's a lot of thought-provoking things you just said. There Was I always driven growing up. I always liked to do things that were.

Kingsley: 9:45

I always loved doing the things that came easy to me Things that didn't didn't really hold my interest when it came to facing my alcoholism, my addiction. I think initially there was a lot of shame. I didn't really know many people in my situation. I was 27 years old. A lot of people that I grew up with and went through schooling with were living in metropolitan areas, with significant others getting into their careers, getting into their relationships and engaged. Others getting into their careers, getting into their relationships and engaged, and I was kind of like in this dark, stuck place, um on drugs, like lost if I look back, kind of. But um, kind of but. So I think I was driven in treatment to just like put it all. I just wanted to put it in a box and like tuck it away and like step back into what was my old life, renewed.

Joe Van Wie: 11:04

Yeah, and I'm always curious when someone says their old life, when did the old life stop? Many people don't probe what this can mean.

Joe Van Wie: 11:15

Some part of you the sense of self or this idea you have of yourself really got frozen or muted or stopped the life that should have happened in quotes stops. What, 18, 21, the way I relate it to my peers where I don't feel alienated, where stigma doesn't start to wash over me like you're describing. Peers moving on getting more serious, in a relationship sharing apartments, careers are beginning. They're going to New York, philadelphia or DC, and here you felt New York, philadelphia or DC, and here you felt what could be described maybe as frozen. Something stopped you from proceeding in that same path of your peers.

Joe Van Wie: 12:07

What do you think addiction does? Or why did addiction show up? Like what was it doing for you? And I think that's the question for a lot of addicts in early recovery? You're saying you're, you're, you're approaching it as a task to complete, an accomplishment to be had, and you and I have known each other for, you know, maybe a year or two. Now I know you don't view it that way, but what made the transition that this, this could be larger than like doing a couple after cares, that I'm like, I got it back to the career, like, how are you viewing that? Like what did it change?

Kingsley: 12:38

You know what was really like an aha moment for me. Well, I think like to go back to like one of your first questions, like when does the old life stop and the new life begin? I think it's with that magic four letter word of help. Okay, and just um for me. When I said help, um, I made myself vulnerable to like the issue that I had. Other people were aware of it. They were then invested in my health, my wellness, caring for me, helping me, loving me, getting me through it. So accountability comes with asking for help, I think to some extent. So I think like my old life slowly started to die out when I asked for help and got honest about like I am doing drugs. I feel like shit, I've had a lot of consequences and I don't want to live like this anymore. You know, and I think it's, it could die there, you know, um and and where are you originally from?

Kingsley: 14:03

Pottsville PA.

Joe Van Wie: 14:05

All right, Is that? Is that Jägermeister or Yingling?

Kingsley: 14:08

Yingling Beer yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 14:10

Oh, how notable, but you didn't get sober in Pottsville.

Kingsley: 14:16

No.

Joe Van Wie: 14:17

And the first year of your recovery was in, not only in Northeastern Pennsylvania is basically based in Scranton recovery life right.

Kingsley: 15:13

Yes, yep.

Joe Van Wie: 15:15

You know you've traveled a lot. What is the distinction? You would, how would you summarize how Scranton's recovery community is very, very distinct in regards to people, help, serious help happening at a non-professional level, our peer-to-peer kind of organizations if it's AA, na, smart Recovery, whatever but we have a very distinct recovery community. Do you think that really mattered in your first year? Looking back at it now, how?

Kingsley: 15:56

substantial was being in this area to you, having long-term recovery, I mean looking back in retrospect, super substantial, but like that first year, throughout the whole. It's a process, right, recovery, treatment, getting an aftercare recommendation, it's all a process, which is something I always had a very hard time with. Yeah, living through the process, I wanted immediate gratification. You know that's maybe part of the drive.

Joe Van Wie: 16:34

Yeah.

Kingsley: 16:36

So it's coming to understand the process. But this Scranton recovery community, I mean, my God, what a blessing, biggest blessing of my life. Did I realize it in my first year of recovery and ending up here through taking treatment suggestions from professionals? No, but if I look at my life today, it is a community thing. It's amazing.

Joe Van Wie: 17:15

Yeah.

Kingsley: 17:15

Filled with like good people, kind people, helpful people, alcoholics.

Joe Van Wie: 17:26

I think it's the most tangible thing to point to, especially if someone finds themselves being not only agnostic or atheist and they're trying to integrate, say, 12-step life, aa, into their life, and this is a. Really it seems like a bridge too far for them, even if they are desperate. It's like you could hear some cruel stuff oh, they're not willing yet. Well, that's kind of browbeating. But what you can point to as the power, like instead of just trying to define God, which is this huge word to unpack, is that 3 million people are in this organization and that's measurable. So where is the power? I don't have to suspend reality or try to understand something supernatural. I immediately could see that something provable is happening.

Joe Van Wie: 18:19

People who have this condition, who get together and get honest with each other, are getting better, and I think that's highly condensed, not only in the county but in our area, and it's because some people around here are really fundamental. They keep some fundamental program of A, and I'm not talking about the worst stuff, the stuff that stigmatized addicts in the fifties, but like real community, you could get ahold of each other. You're in each other's lives. We don't hold secrets from each other. It's not like gossip, it's concern. Um, it's, that's what you're hard pressed to find, that in transit areas like like a recovery community, that's that vibrant, that organic and living, and I watched many women, uh, young women, go through that same place where, where you got to stay. I don't think we mentioned it, but it was a really special place that produced a lot of fabulous.

Kingsley: 19:18

I think about that a lot and I was really blessed and lucky to go there and to be a successful alumni of that program and it's produced a lot of successful, respected women who are.

Joe Van Wie: 19:39

It's great. This isn't.

Kingsley: 19:41

Influential and like.

Joe Van Wie: 19:42

It's not exaggeration. Yeah, women of leadership, and not only nonprofit organizations here clinical organizations, behavioral health, advertising.

Kingsley: 19:54

Yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 19:55

And it's you know. They're in leadership positions because of the recovery they have, but the recovery was forged and began with a lot of you together yeah that's power that, like you, don't have to go far to say okay, you put people together and wellness comes out of it. There was a leader there and a safe place to do it, and there's a void now for for women.

Kingsley: 20:25

Yeah, it makes me sad sometimes but cause there is a void. But I think like the positive side of that coin, of there being like a women specific niche for treatment and in Scranton is you have we all kind of stayed, all the alumni of that program all kind of stayed and kind of you know, our purpose now is we still have to like carry the message right. It just looks a little different than it once did. Yeah, you know, yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 21:09

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Joe Van Wie: 22:02

I think the need's there. I think people have been banging the drum loud enough that there could be pokers in the fire, people to commit to a place, but it really takes one person a special person to commit to it. Fast forwarding Early recovery ends. When did you first take a position in the field of substance use disorder treatment and what did it look like? How did this begin for you?

Kingsley: 22:28

Yeah, so this began for me in April of 2016. And how I landed into it was kind of like you know, despite being uncomfortable, through different phases of treatment, early recovery I will say that there was always some sort of really intriguing component of this way of life that I really grasped and that excited me, and I think it was like I had the drive back to. Like the drive. I was like I want to. I do want to feel this thing. I am curious about its rewards.

Joe Van Wie: 23:21

That's powerful and what I mean by that. When you say drive, my head always goes to two basic drives food and reproduction of the species. And these things are just constantly driving us. If you just wanted to look at life and the experience of life as mechanical engineering evolution, these are the two drives. And something strange because we're humans for, say, just the last 12,000 years, those drives have become very elaborate. They've built economies, more creation in art, and it's the same. When you say ambition, I always wonder is this the well of ambition, that drive to make connection? That's really it. And now it's like spiritual, because we could do it in many ways. And considering others, I don't see many people doing outreach the way you do, because you have such a really outgoing and welcoming personality. How does that drive like it's hard? I guess I would never use that word describing you because you're so welcoming. How do they converge? How does being outgoing, having a really warm and welcoming personality, overlap with drive or vocation, or this calling Wow?

Kingsley: 25:00

You know what I think they collide in my head and the thoughts go that's the alcoholism, I think, joe, the drive and the warm and welcoming outgoing personality. I think that's my issue, you know, and how I work through that like is through trusted friends, vulnerability, um, and just you know, like now, 11 years later, like knowing, like you know what the bad noise is and working through it, like some days, most good days, I could be like Just Go have fun, go keep it simple and enjoy it. And yeah, it's not as like painful to like hone into different things as it was in the beginning, you know.

Joe Van Wie: 25:59

Yeah.

Kingsley: 26:00

Um, and that comes through community.

Joe Van Wie: 26:02

Yeah.

Kingsley: 26:03

Right Um back to like. What I love about where I landed in this community is like having friends, professional mentors at this point, that know my strengths and weaknesses. Um, that could deliver that to me.

Joe Van Wie: 26:24

That's interesting. This, this is unlike many careers and it was jarring at first because it's not always a spirit of competition. So you're, you're out promoting a treatment center, bright life, um, presently, who's a's an unbelievable provider and we'll get to that. So you're promoting this and we come across perceivably what would be in any other field if you're selling tires or widgets or services would be competition and there's this kind of really noble collaboration between providers. There's competition you could point to, but in the end, above it is this virtue of collaboration. Maybe the virtue is being driven by almost what alcoholics like annihilation, that our industry could be annihilated, that'd be great. That means we've we've accomplished our mission. Addiction is over. That's what I mean by that could you imagine?

Joe Van Wie: 27:25

yeah, wouldn't that be the drive of all of us, I mean?

Kingsley: 27:29

I know, but that yeah and and can that happen?

Joe Van Wie: 27:32

I don't know what enough time and space. Anything could happenals won't even always be here, but what we can perceivably do like is define we have a smarter description of how addiction is. You know it's, it's origins, be it in trauma, attunement, these bonding issues that we're. We could point to it now and say, okay, this isn't a mystery and it's not so much genetics. So that aside, I'm going on caveats. I got to go to an interview school, ask a shorter question. What you were saying earlier. I really liked that.

Joe Van Wie: 28:13

The friends and community when you were mentioning it's the same, that it worked for me. And some people might ask well, I have friends and that could be true and some of them may be your real friends in addiction and always will be. Some may not have that and only have bonds of trauma or addiction really definable. About recovery friends, if you're really producing recovery in any path, is you now have a space to be authentic and that's what cures trauma, that's what cures addiction, that a person could finally have authenticity. And I know you're full of that and you recognize it when you're at meetings or in groups someone's finding themselves because they've been comfortable enough to talk about what you just described in your last answer the pain that was driving the addiction man that's. You can miss that so easily if you don't take the chance to let your guard down, and you did.

Kingsley: 29:21

Yeah, you know what is a thought I often have. I drank and used drugs because I didn't like to express myself, so liquid courage helped me get forms of communication across. Liquid courage helped me get forms of communication across. I loved using stimulants cause I felt like they made me perfect. Ultimately, they gave me like focus. I could go hours on end doing one thing. You know, um, and yeah, recovery is like you could have all of those things that you're looking for. You know it's like um, glenda the good witch, joe who's Glenda the good witch?

Kingsley: 30:10

You don't know, glenda the good witch from the wizard of Oz, like you have her name's Glenda. Yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 30:16

I didn't know. She had a name.

Kingsley: 30:17

Yes, you have the power all along. You know you just weren't using it the right way and you know, like they're drugs aren't the right way yeah Right, they're not. We all know that I feel like it's like the purest, simplest form of like childhood life. Like we all know that's all bad, no good, um, it's just like that was my path and working for it. But I always like working through it.

Kingsley: 30:56

But I've always had like this understanding of like these are all the reasons why I use this is how using and drinking and getting drunk and high this was my goal and the feeling or the thing I was going after to coming of a place of like some sort of purgatory, of like early recovery through that and the hope of building a new life like that's exciting, right.

Kingsley: 31:26

Hope of building a new life Like that's exciting, right. Um, we were talking earlier like if, about like the draw or call to recovery, like I didn't want to do it cause it like sucked or was boring. And it ties back to like this community I landed in of like my friends, the people I met here were doing really cool things with their life. They looked happy, they were in relationships, they were getting married, they were having babies, like they were traveling, they and they were still like going to meetings and getting vulnerable with people, and when I like bonded and connected to that, like through vulnerability, I was able to receive like everything that I was looking for in drugs and alcohol was already in me and it's purest form. I just didn't know how to use it in the right way, right.

Joe Van Wie: 32:23

Yeah, that makes sense, way Right, yeah, that makes sense.

Kingsley: 32:25

Deep, that's deep.

Joe Van Wie: 32:30

Stepping into this, how would you define the position that you're in called outreach, and you know, in any other industry they might call it sales, but in treatment and substance use and behavioral health it's called outreach. How would you describe the position of outreach coordinators, marketers? What are they doing in this field and how do they do it?

Kingsley: 32:59

Yeah, great question. So I think number one because I didn't know. If you're in need of treatment and have, like a family friend, loved one yourself, thinking you might have a problem, you need to go away, for there are professionals that could help. I didn't know that. You know I got. I ended up in treatment through an alumni of a of a treatment program, just like a friend my family knew went to treatment. Um, but there's these things called outreach coordinators, business development directors, clinical support specialist Um, I'm a business development director and what we do is I'm a person that you could reach out to and ask for help. I like, quite simply, try to look at my job as I'm a compass.

Joe Van Wie: 33:59

Yeah.

Kingsley: 34:00

You know it's really overwhelming and there's a lot that goes into. There could be a lot that goes into finding care, but this world of treatment and addiction, it, in my experience it's not something that you're always formally educated on, educated on. It's one of those instances in life that happens and you're like, oh shit, this is happening, I have no idea what to do, and you kind of like people tend to just like rack their brains.

Kingsley: 34:41

Or cause more harm, or cause more harm, or cause more harm. So I like to think of myself as a compass to be there to help people navigate recovery.

Joe Van Wie: 34:56

A two-part question how often are you using your own personal experience when you're engaging with families, or are you splitting the time, like what's the split between families and the person in need? You know, maybe not presently, but in the whole total of your career, you can find yourself in front of parents or loved ones, someone that needs treatment, treatment or the individual. How do you switch gears and who do you use more of personal experience and anecdotes of? You know, I'm on the level here. I'm a person in recovery. What does that bring to the job and how often do you use it?

Kingsley: 35:54

I think what personal recovery brings to the job is empathy, relatability, understanding, connection Really a lot of the tools that combat addiction. How often do I use my personal recovery? Um, as a tool? Um, I don't know, cause it's a piece of me. You know like I use it every day.

Joe Van Wie: 36:18

Cause. Um, that's, that's why you're you're who you are, because there's no parts as a whole. That's You're who you are, because there's no parts.

Kingsley: 36:22

Yeah, there's a whole.

Joe Van Wie: 36:24

That's a really sincere way to answer that question, and it's all. Oh, that's right.

Kingsley: 36:32

I'm not out there like, hey, I'm in recovery, give me a call, you know, if it like comes up or if it's like a point of you think it will matter and you could help. It's not, you know, it's like a point of you think it will matter and you could help. Yeah, you know it's like do you watch the Bear? I love the Bear show. Like that's like the recovery component of what I. It's like a connection, it's like following a team sport.

Kingsley: 37:01

To me, you know, like if being in recovery personally comes up and it's like a point of connection, like I love to connect with people. So why not like share the experience you know?

Joe Van Wie: 37:14

I got to watch the bear Everyone keeps saying this, the bear.

Kingsley: 37:17

It's actually on tonight at nine, the new season yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 37:21

I'm totally out of the loop.

Kingsley: 37:23

You got to watch it. Um, nine, the new season. Yeah, I'm totally out of the loop. You gotta watch it. Um, but yeah, I use it all the time because I mean, the reality is, is it's part of me? Yeah, you know kingsley, what?

Joe Van Wie: 37:37

where are you now? What is this? This, the strain? It's one word. It's one word, it's not two words, it's Bright Life.

Kingsley: 37:44

Bright Life. What is Bright Life? So Bright Life is a drug and alcohol treatment company. We currently operate two inpatient facilities beautiful, comfy, dignified.

Joe Van Wie: 38:02

Would you call it luxury?

Kingsley: 38:03

Yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 38:04

Okay, yeah, I've seen the website and I've I've been down to Hanover.

Kingsley: 38:10

Yeah, Um, we're in Hanover, Hilton head Island, and we have a facility coming to the cat skills in New York this year.

Joe Van Wie: 38:22

Um and all three are using the same kind of roadmap of clinical approaches. Are they all the same level of care?

Kingsley: 38:29

Yes, all same level of care, detox and residential. So for those who are looking to learn here, you know what you think of when you think of quote-unquote rehab, like your 30-day stay. That is what Bright Life does.

Joe Van Wie: 38:48

Now, what do you think makes Bright Life distinct? You've been at a couple of places and you've been to some really large, prolific treatment providers, and now you're with this almost boutique yeah, three places. Well, one's arriving in the Catskills. What is different about Bright Life? In this regard? You were mentioning, before we started taping, a nature approach to recovery, and it sounded really interesting to me because there was a lot of details. Is this one thing you could point to that makes the treatment distinct? What was it called the nature track?

Kingsley: 39:33

Nature-informed therapy.

Joe Van Wie: 39:35

Nature-informed therapy. What is nature-informed therapy?

Kingsley: 39:40

I always say to some individuals like it's exactly what it sounds like.

Joe Van Wie: 39:46

Yeah.

Kingsley: 39:46

It's nature. If I'm being silly, it's nature-informed therapy.

Joe Van Wie: 39:52

I think all things are nature-informed. I always look at it as just a rock that produced madness, we're just on a rock that's produced.

Kingsley: 40:00

I'm kidding Nature-in informed therapy. It's really cool and kind of simple, but something that goes like a little bit unnoticed in 2024, but really what it is is like it's a therapeutic modality of just tapping into the elements natural elements that surround us, and grounding ourself within that, paying attention to it, utilizing its healing components.

Joe Van Wie: 40:34

And it's interesting, I, a lot of people like I could I could see a gruff old World War II vets that we grew up around. We just say, ah, it's the hippie stuff, but take it. I take what you're saying and when I was reading on the site in this lens, we spent most of the entire history of being living organisms that finally produced mammals, us being like Homo sapiens. In this environment, the raw environment that you're describing, environment, the raw environment that you're describing you know. Strip away social media, mass communications, electricity, water, even irrigation. Most of our time has been spent acting as a hunter-gatherer and we still have the brain.

Joe Van Wie: 41:20

The brain didn't really evolve any new atomical structure since then. This is just one thing that popped in my head while I was reading this. Right, so that is being said. We get anxiety from culture and the way society gathers and just keeps getting more complex, complex, how we're like this hive mind. There is something real in deprogramming all of that so you could go back to whatever civilization you want to go to after treatment, say Bright Life, but you get a space to reset. It's almost like deprogramming the software that's running your brain and going back to the place where we spent the most amount of time as a species. Let me get in touch with that raw anxiety of nature and see what's left of me.

Kingsley: 42:11

Yeah.

Joe Van Wie: 42:12

Yeah, that's, that sounds awesome.

Kingsley: 42:15

Yeah, it was. And I think I was telling you I had like this experience in the Catskills with my team. And I think when you asked me like what I love about Bright Life, why Bright Life the team is a really big part of that but I lost my train of thought. We were saying like this experience of just like when's the last time you had the opportunity to just be in nature? It's not, and kind of just be like, oh right, like I'm just going to feel the sun on my body, you know.

Joe Van Wie: 42:59

I love doing that and I've been in many spaces in my life where, when I was doing that, it draws out the venom that's laying in my mind. I don't even want to call it venom, say poison, anxiety. I start to feel restless Something that should feel so natural, like the sun going for a walk. When you have substance use disorder or you're trying to recover, you don't even know you're aware of your own addiction, or maybe anxiety getting out of control. Being in those settings might make you feel uncomfortable, and then you'll think the setting's producing it, and it's not. It's what you brought to the setting. Nature is a great place to really have the confrontation with any mental health problems.

Kingsley: 43:47

Yeah, yeah, amazing. I love it, you know, and it's funny like Bright Life offers this nature informed therapy as part of our clinical treatment. So it sparked my mind like all right, where is nature in my life? And over like the past three years, four years, I've had like two children. I've had two maternity leaves, which is a time, I guess you know it's a time but for being like high, highs, low, lows, new routine.

Kingsley: 44:26

But last summer I would like sit on this one brown couch in my house. Sometimes you have a crying baby, you're trying to put them to sleep, you're feeding them. It could get very like just grinding, wheeling around and like this, like keeping this precious baby alive, which, yeah, just very routine, where sometimes I don't throw like I to me and could lack like stimuli, stimulation. So, anyway, I got like we have a bird feeder on one of our windows of my living room and I just would be like in my living room taking care of my baby, like doing all of the routine stuff, and like just started to get this appreciation for like not only like, yes, I was admiring my beautiful baby boy, but at the same time I was like so into this bird feeder and watching the birds that I sound like. I sound like I was smoking pot right now a little bit, but you know, I got like this appreciation for, like Nature Right, it provided me peace.

Joe Van Wie: 45:55

How does someone get in touch with Bright Life? Call me.

Kingsley: 46:01

Like any good business development rep would say give me a call. But yeah, you could contact myself, you could contact our admissions department.

Joe Van Wie: 46:15

I'll put all that information on. Yeah.

Kingsley: 46:18

Even if you don't want to like speak to someone, you could go on our website. There's a little chat, you know, to dip your toe in if you're curious.

Joe Van Wie: 46:29

But, um, you call me anytime all right call bright life, anytime yeah well, I hope you come back and we always enjoy when you stop by. Aaron, you brought some goodies. She gave us some Starbucks.

Kingsley: 46:42

That was really nice next time I'm going to bring a bird, I'm going to bring a bird feeder for you next time, maybe a rock right here.

Joe Van Wie: 46:54

Put it in the window a terrarium. Kingsley, thanks for coming by thanks. I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of Thanks iHeartRadio and Alexa. Special thanks to our producer, john Edwards, and engineering company 570 Drone. Please like or subscribe to us on YouTube, facebook, instagram or Twitter and, if you're not, on social media you're awesome. Looking forward to seeing you again. And remember just because you're sober doesn't mean you're right.