"Gimme Shelter" with Rose Nogan

Meet Rose Nogan CRS

Rose is a Certified Recovery Specialist, and Principal owner at Whitetail Sober Living.

She shares her story as a person in long term recovery, then speaks to the growing need for female sober living facilitates in Luzerne and Lackawanna Counties.

Rose has served as a Recovery Specialist at Marworth Treatment Center (Geisinger), and "The Recovery Bank" in downtown Scranton.

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Leaders Of Long Term Recovery in Pennsylvania 

We combine proven recovery principles with new, innovative techniques to provide one of the most effective programs for young men in the country.

 Discussions on addiction and recovery. We interview clinicians/researchers, legislators, and individuals that include a variety of means to recovery. Joe Van Wie is a father, husband, filmmaker, and reformed media consultant in recovery. 

Transcript

Joe Van Wie  0:08  
I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of all better.fm. I am your host, Joe van week. Today's guest is Rose noggin. Rose is a certified recovery specialist. Rose has been working in the drug and alcohol field for the last decade. Rose has worked for Geisinger, at more worth as an addiction specialist. Rose also was the volunteer coordinator at the recovery bank, and also worked for outpatient services at tea pals in Scranton. Rose currently runs to women's recovery houses and owns them whitetail recovery homes. Eat Rose.

Rose, I thought we could start this interview by laughing I invite you to laugh. I'm Todd Team Rose, I'd like to thank rose, for coming on today. Rose is one of my good friends. And that's what this podcast was about. How I'm going to show her to where you get to meet some friends and our professionals or caregivers in this field of addiction and recovery. And after their own, you get to know them. I think a lot of our conversations will transition into just straight discussions. But I want the chance to anyone who's enjoying the show to meet Rose. Rose, introduce yourself.

Rose Nogan  2:01  
Well, my name is Rose and Elgin. And do you want to want me to tell you a little bit about my or

Joe Van Wie  2:09  
I'm sure people are curious to your middle name. What's your middle name rose?

Rose Nogan  2:14  
Well, first, I'll let you know what my first name is. Because that's different. Rosita is my first name. And not everybody knows that. I usually don't tell people because they usually butcher it. And I don't want to explain it. And then my middle name is Christina.

Joe Van Wie  2:30  
But you spell on your social media Facebook. That your name? Yeah, yes. Can you spell it? It's wild.

Rose Nogan  2:38  
Yeah, it is. It's German. So it's our iOS witj. So the W is pronounced like a V.

Joe Van Wie  2:45  
Wow. And who is German? Your mom or your dad? My mom? Your mom?

Rose Nogan  2:50  
Yep. It's her middle name.

Joe Van Wie  2:51  
Yeah, that's a beautiful name. Thanks. It's really I would not know how to pronounce it from seeing it's spelled that way.

Rose Nogan  2:58  
Yeah, nobody knows how to do it.

Joe Van Wie  3:01  
I've known you what? You know. 1520 years.

Rose Nogan  3:05  
Oh my god. Really? Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  3:06  
And I'm seeing your Facebook name and I'm I have to admit, I'm looking at I thought it was just a hippie version of Rose. I'm like this. Maybe there's some kind of you know, the Dharma way to spell rose? I had no idea. Oh, my God. Yeah. See, I had to have a podcast to get to know my friends better. Yeah, crazy. Well, Rose, where are you from? Give us some background. Where'd you what was life like growing up?

Rose Nogan  3:34  
Well, um, my parents are from well, my mother was born in Germany. Then. My parents were they met in New York. So I was born in New York, Long Island. And then when I was about four, we moved up to Lake Ariel. We sort of bounced around different towns, little towns over there. So I was there until I was about 20, about 18 When I graduated high school, and I just hated it there. Yeah. You know, I just felt like I was in the middle of nowhere. And I just, I just hated it. I would escape to the big city of Scranton, in high school. And

Joe Van Wie  4:16  
sure it's a big city when you're from Lake Ariel. Yeah. My cousin's grew up in true. It was the first time I heard where I live Scranton. I grew up in Southside. And we were gonna ride bikes in his backyard. And his mother said, Be careful you know that you know, there was always kidnappers in the ad, so we're gonna get you lurking. Be careful mom. Joseph grew up in the city. The city to me was an action movie Lethal Weapon. Die Hard. These are cities. Right, right. Yeah, that's real.

Rose Nogan  4:49  
Yeah, it is. Yep. So you know, I would. I had some screens and friends and I felt like, you know, they were the fun ones. But so as soon as I was 18th I moved to Scranton. And then I lived there for a few years. And then I moved out to Arizona. And I moved out west. I just kept bouncing around from place to place.

Joe Van Wie  5:16  
What year was that? I remember when you came home from Arizona, that's when I kind of got familiar with you. And I knew you some of your friends.

Rose Nogan  5:26  
Yep. I think I moved back in 2004 2004. Yeah, cuz I was out there for like three years. Yeah. Yep.

Joe Van Wie  5:37  
How did you enjoy living out there? Outside of was there any distress living there was addiction alive? And well?

Rose Nogan  5:45  
Yeah. Because really what I was doing was escaping. You know, I was living in Scranton, and, you know, I was in the middle of my addiction. I was just drinking like crazy, getting messed up all the time and just miserable and depressed. And I thought Scranton was the problem. I thought all everybody I was hanging out with was the problem. So I moved out to Arizona,

Joe Van Wie  6:10  
they were existences the problem of addiction.

Rose Nogan  6:15  
But they're everywhere.

Joe Van Wie  6:16  
Yeah. I don't see it as my mind, per se is what my mind is perceiving. Yeah, it's a problem. Being alive is a problem.

Rose Nogan  6:23  
Yeah, yeah. Every part of it.

Joe Van Wie  6:24  
What did drinking do for you, that you feel you couldn't do for yourself that would cause an addiction? Like, what feelings did alcohol give you?

Rose Nogan  6:34  
Well, I mean, I remember one of the first times I drank and I just never knew how to act like I felt like I was always like, trapped in a body. And I had no idea how to act around people, and how to interact and have any kind of feel like I belonged or knew I just felt so separated from everybody else. So when I drank all that separation disappeared,

Joe Van Wie  7:03  
immediately, immediately. Like it's a flooding of dopamine. Yeah. Do you feel secure?

Rose Nogan  7:10  
Yep. It was just like, there was no pause between, you know, what I was thinking or feeling and saying, it was just like, I felt I was just in the moment. I didn't feel separated from anybody. I felt like I could relate to the people around me. Or if I couldn't, I didn't care anyway. Yeah, alcohol

Joe Van Wie  7:28  
does that. It's it's illusionary. But it's powerful. And it's, it's like a half truth. It's real. It connects people. And though it may look shallow, to a more thinking person, it's pretty profound for a person like me that didn't feel that sense of connection or feel it that profoundly until I found alcohol. So are you from the belief that there was a problem, like a prior condition before us?

Rose Nogan  7:59  
Definitely. Yeah. And even you know, the longer I stay sober, the more I start understanding more and more about my past and I mean, it I think it just goes deep.

Joe Van Wie  8:14  
Yeah, yeah, I do too. I am having newfound respect of how, you know, my mind formed not and it's not about blame. And I'm always for years I misunderstood the word trauma prior to us. It's not always really descriptive of an event or violence per se. And I think that is the cause of why my mind married drugs and alcohol and they're the people I relate to in recovery like shelf. So I always think that's a clear distinction I always like to have on the show so addiction isn't befuddled to the idea that drugs and alcohol cause addiction they don't brains to so you move back from Arizona at this point was there any attempts to seek a life where maybe you're identifying maybe use is a problem

Rose Nogan  9:18  
so there were some times where like, before I moved, I would try to stop you know, I'd wake up the next morning and just be like, What the fuck happened? Where's my clothes where my shoes go? I lost my glasses again

Joe Van Wie  9:35  
missing one of my ears

Rose Nogan  9:39  
Yeah, just, you know, just crazy things would always be happening and just embarrassing and then I'd feel like shit just physically disgusting. And, and I just remember there was always like this one time I actually kept the letter. I had a typewriter at the time, and I typed it Letter to mail it. No, I don't think so. But I typed the letter to myself saying today is the day that I quit drinking forever. And like I knew that drinking was a problem. But and I remember like taking my water bottle full of vodka and walking down the street and just be like, Fuck this, and I threw it in the dumpster. It's a sterile,

Joe Van Wie  10:22  
it's a ritual to brand in your mind. I've done stuff like that I do I still do it to try to quit smoking.

Rose Nogan  10:28  
Right? Yeah, you try it. I was trying to do something profound, but it didn't stick.

Joe Van Wie  10:33  
Yeah. It's it's something that's really interesting, because we do it every time. So if you were in a or NA, you identify yourself as an addict, or an alcoholic, to type a letter to yourself, What version is writing it versus who you want to read it? Like there's a split. It's not as sexy as you know, some split personality or schizophrenia. But it is an admittance that there's two people up there competing for control over your cognitive mind. And I think he was always done that they identify the alcoholic, and that he's still there, or she. I just find it so interesting, because that's where my interest is this idea that you wrote a letter to yourself, What version is going to read it? Who do you have to talk to that you have to formally write a letter. And it's the ego, it's this battle of this. There's this monster growing in there that's living in a fantasy life for myself, that I've done the ceremonies to confront it, and it was just never enough. And I think that's why a lot of people that have had profound experiences having that conversation with themselves. Like the founder of like Bill Wilson, who founded a was under the, you know, high doses of Bella Donna, it muted the idea of himself. So the message was to one person, just something peculiar about that of the battle that happens in our head.

Rose Nogan  12:08  
Yeah. It's just interesting. Yeah, I

Joe Van Wie  12:11  
feel I had an ego before my personality. And I don't know the distinctions between the two of them when I got sober, because the ego did so much to protect me when I would puffer up or be the worst that could get me out of uncomfortable situations. And I didn't know where my personality began and ended because of addiction. I think my ego arose out to protect me from the inadequacies. But then when I found alcohol, I'm like, wow, this is this is much more efficient.

Rose Nogan  12:43  
Yep. Yeah, that's very interesting. I'm still learning about that, like, what the ego is and who I am. And who's i? And

Joe Van Wie  12:52  
who's here? Mm hmm. Which Rose is here?

Rose Nogan  12:55  
Oh, there's about 10 different ones.

Joe Van Wie  12:59  
No, but it's not as like, you know, sensationalism movie, like I have this split personality. I'm drawing lipstick over my face in the mirror like Devolo. But it's real, it's subtle. It's a struggle.

Rose Nogan  13:17  
But I feel like, honestly, lately, and probably the last, the longer I stay sober, the more merged I feel, you know, I don't feel that separateness a lot. Like, where I'm constantly talking to, like a different part of myself, you know, especially because I'm not drinking anymore. There's some like old behaviors that are still there and old ways of thinking and old patterns, but like, I can I have an awareness where I can notice those things. And rather than try to convince myself and talk to myself, I just sort of am aware of it. You know, and I think you and I have definitely talked about this like observing, you know, observing my thoughts and just stepping back rather than trying to be these two versions of myself and just trying to accept me as like a whole person. Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  14:13  
It was terribly difficult to me, it becomes so automatic, this automatic function. I'm not even consciously acknowledging it. I'm sure other people could see it that were close to me. How to do that. And how did how did you commit to the idea of you want to be abstinent and live a life of abstinence? How did you commit to that idea?

Rose Nogan  14:39  
Um, well, there were two different times the first time I got sober. It wasn't intentional. I wasn't like, it wasn't like I had this terrible experience. And I was like, Oh my God, I need to get sober. It was this long, drawn out, exhausting, dark, terrible life that I was living in. And I really feel like people were just placed into my life to guide me into sobriety. So I was working at a cafe at the time with somebody that was in recovery. And he just knew he knew that I needed help. And he invited me to a meeting. He's like, why don't you just come to a meeting with me?

Joe Van Wie  15:22  
And it didn't feel like he was stepping over bounds. It was like, it came as an act of like, He was caring.

Rose Nogan  15:28  
Yeah, cuz him and I were pretty close. And he was so kind. And, you know, he. And at the time, I think might, the lines get blurred a little bit, but I think I was also going to Al Anon at the time, and I would go with his aunt. So I was getting introduced to him and his family. And then his aunt's friend was in AAA. So his aunt and the ants friend would come into the cafe all the time. And I'm pretty sure they were 12 stepping me because they knew sure, you know, so I had this little community of people that sort of were there to help me. So I went from Al Anon to AAA, he was there to take me to these meetings. And then he introduced me to the other lady who then became my sponsor. And that's how it started. I didn't go to treatment the first time or,

Joe Van Wie  16:20  
ya know, in having these people show that concern, not just disingenuous, it's sincere. Did you feel like you were being surrounded by not only support, but these are possibly going to be friends?

Rose Nogan  16:37  
Oh, yeah. Yeah, they were. They showed to be true friends. And I didn't have true friends at that time. Yeah, you know, it was, I was just escaping a very horrific relationship. And they were there to help me through that. And

Joe Van Wie  16:56  
when you were doing that by yourself?

Rose Nogan  16:59  
Well, I needed help to get out of there. So I had to ask a couple friends,

Joe Van Wie  17:05  
where you've at that time in your life, did you feel unsafe or vulnerable to this relationship? You're kind of navigating it by yourself?

Rose Nogan  17:13  
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was very, I did not feel safe at all.

Joe Van Wie  17:18  
So this gives you a sense of protection as well to these these people.

Rose Nogan  17:23  
Yeah, because they actually live lived with one of them. Like, you know, the lady who was my allanon sponsor opened her and her family opened up their home to me, you know, and

Joe Van Wie  17:36  
then had to make all the difference, especially if you felt a little bit in danger. And you don't have an immediate way to marshal a court or a legal action. Oh, yeah, it feels uncomfortable. When do I do it? Or you wait till you have never, it's so hard to talk about what a woman has to go through. Before taking a legal action? It's a field that kind of danger. And you experienced that?

Rose Nogan  18:02  
Yeah. Yep. And I didn't really I didn't know what to do, you know, but yeah, they opened up their home to me, I felt safe, you know, and then from there, that's when I think I moved to my grandparents house. So I stayed there. And um, you know, that was, I think that was the beginning of it.

Joe Van Wie  18:25  
What would you say? So you, you're entering recovery? What do you think the the first most profound change was consciously that you're like, there's, there's more to this than friends and support, which is powerful. But something consciously changed? Well, how would you describe that happening to you?

Rose Nogan  18:49  
Um, there were, I don't know, they were like little experiences. That seemed huge to me. Because like, I shared, I didn't know how to interact with people. And I didn't know how to handle situations properly. So I was like, a stuffer. I just stuffed everything. And then I also wasn't very explosive, and was angry all the time. And I wasn't like violent in the sense where it was like constantly beating people up or hurting people, but I had like, a very violent streak in me. And

Joe Van Wie  19:28  
did you was that coming from a sense that maybe did you not feel safe a lot of times?

Rose Nogan  19:34  
I mean, that's just how I feel like I was raised. I mean, that saying that I was raised in a violent household, but like, you know, my family. You know, my father and grandfather were fighters. You know, there was I'm the oldest of five. You know, like, it's just like, we were very you know, just very, I don't know, expressive in certain Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  20:02  
So put your dukes up.

Rose Nogan  20:04  
Yeah, you know, which is fine. I mean, I'm glad you know that it's late

Joe Van Wie  20:08  
Gharial. There's nothing to do if there's some kick the shit out of each other TVs broke, who wants a punch

Rose Nogan  20:23  
but and plus I had no idea how to navigate my emotions and like I was used to being sad or angry or anything else. I was just like, What the hell is this? So those were profound moments in early recovery where I learned how to communicate with people. Yeah, that didn't end up in a fight or an argument. And I was able to articulate what it was that I was feeling and what I wanted to express. Yeah, that was were huge moments for me. And we're

Joe Van Wie  20:54  
so over the next couple of years, there was another big event. You had a daughter? But I think that any what would you describe? How did life go before that before you had Jade?

Rose Nogan  21:17  
Well, I do have another daughter. And she's 14. And she is technically my niece, but I've raised her like my daughter since she was one. So you know, I wasn't prepared for that. I was about four months sober. And again, you know, people were in my corner, and they lend their hand and just helped me and Maria through through it all, you know, there was a,

Joe Van Wie  21:52  
I just kind of became friendly with you, we would we would talk at meetings, and then never left my mind, the strength and your ability to take care of people and got you know, I don't get to meet people like that anywhere else that day, or at least talk to them sincerely and let your guard down. It's not like flattery, like. And I would think about you often when I would I'd have a gym. And I think that's the social relationship that is changed my life in a way that doesn't take cynicism away from me. I never forgot that when that was happening. And it gives me guts. I mean, that that is profound, that that's what I think recovery is you can you gotten a power within four months didn't even have to take care of other people. That's pretty amazing. So I mean, that's one reason why I've always was interested in every time you spoke, and we became friends because of I saw just so much power in that, that I didn't understand. Wow, that's just so what strength? Yeah, I didn't want to put that out there. But I knew I wanted to mention that. So your mom got two girls in the house. And you've worked in recovery field, the recovery field and you worked at Mar worth for three years. How did you like working out more with

Rose Nogan  23:28  
I wasn't planning on working in the recovery field. It just sort of happened. I just had Jade. And I was doing hair. I'm a licensed cosmetologist and I wasn't able to work for a while. So I wound up getting just any job, I think it was working at kerevi is like slicing deli meat, which I really did not want to do, but I knew I had to do something. And so I was only there for a few months and a friend in recovery was working up at Mar worth and said that they were looking for a chemical specialist. And so I applied, I got the job. And I was already doing like commitments up there with the women in the community. So I was familiar with the facility and I really enjoyed it. I really found something that made me feel good. You know, I felt like I was doing something meaningful, meaningful with my time. Yeah, I liked it.

Joe Van Wie  24:34  
Well, my memory of that was, you know, downtown, we'd have Hanks coffees, it was group of us that would socialize and it was it was a great support when I lived downtown. My business down there. And then I slowly started to like just my mind just started to deteriorate into anger of worry depression wasn't even talking to me. And out of that came this one kind of searching idea. Maybe you guys were putting together a meditation group that was meet once a week or meet at my house. And it had to be around the time we started going tomorrow. It's a once a week just moved into sales. We're doing meditations when it was the weather was cold. If not, we'd be up now. Fast forward a year later, my life's completely spun out of control, trying to put a saddle on act of us. How did this happen? Again, yada, yada, but a bit of calm down. Go tomorrow with you were there. Yep. Was that? That was weird.

Rose Nogan  25:37  
I was like, Oh my God. Oh, yeah. You were cut rolled in in the wheelchair? Oh, yeah. I don't remember. It was in a wheelchair. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think it was your first day or like,

Joe Van Wie  25:56  
man, yeah, wheelchair life. I was, I was not doing well. I really thought I didn't think I was gonna be coming back to any any place that would feel sane, stable, are worthwhile. But I've always been grateful have friends like you that I've, I've trusted tell people I am really not doing well, you've always been one of those people in my life that have never been ashamed of telling you how much distress I'm in. And I need help. And you've been able to help me and mobilize people. And I've always heard that debt too. So. So you've worked around more words, and then you had time at the recovery bank. That's an interesting place that Scranton has the it's a nonprofit, right. And it's a resource for access to not only computers, career, linking CRS programs, cooking classes, yoga, meetings, groups, art shows, communal fundraisers drives, and I got active in there after you got involved there. And I think you got a lot of people involved there, you should be proud of that. How did you enjoy working there?

Rose Nogan  27:17  
That was a very exciting place to work. I was so happy. Being a volunteer coordinator, I really felt like I was I don't know, just like I was coming into my own. I felt like it was a perfect position for me. And the first year was so exciting because it was so new. And we were able to have this freedom to have art shows and music. And we were open for First Friday. So I was always trying to get people in there. And I was working with all these people in recovery that were really early on that wanted to volunteer their time and be of service to the recovery community. So that was it was just so nice to work with people that wanted to give back that really didn't have much time. But they had time on their hands and they wanted to help.

Joe Van Wie  28:09  
And this This was pre COVID. Right pre COVID. Yep. And then that was what were their doors open. Maybe a year, and then

Rose Nogan  28:20  
the pandemic hit. Yes. Yep. It

Joe Van Wie  28:22  
was about a year, didn't it kind of put every stalled everything out there for a while

Rose Nogan  28:27  
it did. Yeah, I mean, we I was working from home for a little bit. And it really put a damper on what was happening there. Because the whole point of the recovery bank was to have people meet and congregate together, you know, have that communal feel. And it just sort of took that away

Joe Van Wie  28:46  
across the country. When you see research or impact studies on how to best spend money on treatment on the level of care of stabilization, or communities or how courts or counties could spend money on every intelligent plan. There would be a line that said, a recovery center. And what a recovery center would do is give people on work release parole, or the general population resources to build a career, find a resume, get skills, congregate, have a cafe have cooking nutrition classes. And this was on target and that was that was scary to see that happen. I didn't know if we recover that summer. We were doing food drives. It's come down. But I think they're they're making a turn now. I'm seeing a lot of activity now. But you're no longer there. Correct. And now you you've hung your hat, a T pals and outpatient program, doing various things, but not to skirt over that because I'll have Angier one day. She could tell us a little about T bells. What I'm really interested in It is a void you filled a little out of care, your heart, and you've had an on you have an entrepreneurial spirit. How long? How long did you want to create a recovery house rose created two recovery houses for women? How long did you want to do this before it became actualized.

Rose Nogan  30:26  
I remember when I was still working at Mar worth, I was working with someone who, for some reason was always looking on the internet looking at houses, even though he wasn't going to buy one. And then I remember him telling me like Rose, you should buy this house and make it a female sober house. And I don't remember if he was the first one to tell me that or my daughter's father also owns males over houses. So the idea was sort of planted. I think it was going to do it years before that. But it just it fell through. It wasn't the right time. And then the idea popped up again, while I was still at Mar worth. So the seed was planted. And then what really pushed me was, I've always, like you said, I have this entrepreneurial spirit. And I hate working for other people. I hate it. And I've learned it. And I've always known that about myself. But I really tried to do it because I knew that there was a part of me that needed to be rounded out and needed to learn how to take direction and not always fight authority. And, you know, I needed to learn how to do that. And I just was sort of pushed to a point where I realized I wasn't doing what I wanted to do. I wasn't happy, you know. And so the wheels started turning. And I just started looking for a house. And when I was looking for a house, I made sure that I found a house that had a separate unit that I could make into a sober house. And I would talk to people about like making income from that sober house. And so I worked. I was working at the recovery bank and running the sober house which I opened up the first one about two years ago, maybe three, what was

Joe Van Wie  32:19  
the landscape prior to you opening that up? For women in Lackawanna County? It was kind of sparse, right? Yes,

Rose Nogan  32:27  
it's so sparse. There was

Joe Van Wie  32:29  
is there any exploitation going on of like, shitty places not safe, or

Rose Nogan  32:36  
there is not even any to exploit? You know, there's maybe two other ones. They're just

Joe Van Wie  32:42  
it's just no resources. So there's a big need there, not only for women with addiction, women leaving impossible domestic situations, pregnant women. So you saw this as something when you said that you weren't happy doing what you're doing? Why would this make you happy? Or the idea of fulfillment? Was this what was drawing you to it? Primarily?

Rose Nogan  33:13  
I knew that what I liked doing was helping people. Yeah, I found that out. When I started working at more worth, my favorite thing to do was just talk with the clients. I didn't really care about the administration, all that other behind the scenes bullshit. So I just really enjoyed that. And that was always my focus. And then when I was doing CRS work and the volunteer coordinating at the recovery bank, I knew that that's the part of the work that I enjoyed. I just wanted to work directly with the people. But I didn't want other people telling me how to do it. And I knew I was good at what I was doing. So that was that was the draw up for me. And I knew that there was a lack of resources in the area. And I forgot what the question was.

Joe Van Wie  34:01  
It didn't matter. I was I was just listening deeply in the sense what's the name of your recovery house, wait till sober living or to sober living and how are people usually referred to you?

Rose Nogan  34:12  
Usually through treatment centers, even centers, word of mouth,

Joe Van Wie  34:16  
and that comes from being reputable and credible. I've seen your home so beautiful. Thank you. I saw all the work you put into them and I got to go to a picnic there and see how comfortable and safe the people are that are working there in a second chance. Do you think this this this Genesis of wanting to do this came from the profound impact of someone their family reaching out to you when you came home from Nevada?

Rose Nogan  34:50  
It you know what I remember? First getting sober and my sponsor telling me because I always felt like so many people were held thing me and I wasn't doing anything in return. And I remember my sponsor telling me like one day rolls, you'll be able to help people. So maybe I never really thought about it consciously. But my time is now. You know, I'm in a position where I can help people, like people helps me.

Joe Van Wie  35:21  
You will, you've helped me, You've helped me be a more of a gentleman, a better husband. By being my friend of my roses in my home group. She's in my support group. She's been a friend to me when I've been lost drunk, and on drugs. She's been a friend to me and recovery. And she's been a friend to me and working the steps, which made me a better man. But to see the work you were doing in the last three years. And me when I was when I was last in my addiction, on this, this last relapse, I pray, I still was seeing what you were doing it would, it would be in my head and taught me of how indulgent and last I was, I owe this debt. And I saw you paying a debt. And I don't want to be cynical about the word spirituality. It's a lot to unpack, but I felt I owed a spiritual debt for the life I had. And I wasn't paying it. And it was killing me. And to see you do that really kept something awakened me that I didn't want to give up the idea that maybe I could, I could give back. So it's weird what goes on in our private life, from just seeing people we admire, that aren't on TV, that aren't anywhere else. They're my they're my life. I'm pretty fortunate to know someone like you doing this. A lot of not a lot of people get a chance to pay that debt.

Rose Nogan  36:48  
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Joe, I appreciate you as a friend too. And you've helped me a lot too. You know, I remember when I was trying to think business mind. I was, like years ago, when you had your you know, when your head your business. And I remember talking to you and just trying to pick your brain about things, and I

Joe Van Wie  37:07  
told you all revenue equals profit.

No, but yeah, I think we're fortunate in this little nest of the world, Scranton, it's easy to criticize if you're looking for something else. But man, for the recovery community. This is a tight knit group. It's not. It's not common. Because I see where people are coming from. I work at avenues and to see them struggle to find a meeting where they're comfortable. And then they go to a couple of meetings takes months maybe to know someone unless you're going to talk. People have to work harder to get that here. I mean, you're at a meeting. We might know you by that first day. Hey, what's up, man? How are you? Sounds cultish. But it's not. versus the alternative of suffering alone from a cognitive disorder. You don't know how to admit to having yet. Rose, would you come back anytime in the near future to that we could go topic base. I think the viewers

Rose Nogan  38:15  
know you. I'm definitely not coming back. How

Joe Van Wie  38:19  
long have you been sober now? 13 years. 13 years. Holy smokes. Yeah. That's a good number. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's weird. Well, Rose. If anyone wanted to reach out for a resource to find placement for women, how would they be in touch with you? Well, right now the the treatment centers is the referrals.

Rose Nogan  38:43  
Yeah, the treatment center. I mean, and where are these homes? There's one in Dunmore and one in Jessup and Jesse.

Joe Van Wie  38:52  
And I want to thank you for coming on. One more time.

Rose Nogan  38:58  
Thanks, Joe. Thank you for having me. Thanks, Rose.

Joe Van Wie  39:10  
I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of all better. You can find us on all better.fm or listen to us on Apple podcasts. Spotify, Google, podcasts, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, and Alexa. Special thanks to our producer John Edwards, and engineering company 570. Drone. Please like or subscribe to us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. And if you're not on social media, you're awesome. Looking forward to seeing you again. And remember, just because you're sober, doesn't mean you're right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai