"A Life Lost, and a Life Saved" with Karl Wegforth

How often do childhood influences shape the trajectory of our lives? For our guest, Weggy, those early years steeped in a culture where alcohol consumption was normalized, became the precursor to his lifelong struggle with alcoholism. We walk with him down memory lane, from his high school days working at a bar under his father's influence, through to his reckless party lifestyle that eventually led him to confront the harsh realities of his dependence on alcohol.

As we delve deeper into Weggy's narrative, he shares his experiences bartending, his personal relationships affected by his addiction, and the financial setbacks he endured. The turning point arrives when Weggy discusses his path towards self-destruction that lead to liver failure and the terrifying confrontation with mortality. His resilience shines through when he narrates his strenuous journey from hitting rock bottom to his transformative moment of change.

In the final leg of Weggy's poignant story, we explore his life post a life-saving liver transplant. Discover how this second chance at life, marked by his donor's love for music, reignites Weggy's passion for the same and gifts him a renewed sense of purpose and respect for life. His heartrending journey from the clutches of alcoholism to the path of recovery and redemption will leave you inspired. Tune in to witness a powerful tale of a brave man who lived to tell his story of surviving alcoholism.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:53

two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine ten.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Now count from a hundred back to one. Hello and thanks again for listening to another episode of All Better. I'm your host, joe Van Lee. Today's guest is another friend named Carl Wegforth, or known regionally as Weggy. Carl stops by today to discuss how he came to terms with his alcoholism and how he came to understand the disorder had an effect on him when he wasn't drinking, how this was brought to light and forced to be dealt with.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Was Carl found out he had cirrhosis in a serious way? We discussed how one prepares a family children to come to terms and understand that he might die before there's hope of a liver transplant. We talked about that exhausting experience in a year where someone measures their own mortality and how it reinforced his commitment to sobriety in a new way of life, which became quite moving while we were discussing it. So I look forward to meeting Weggy. All right, we're live with Weggy. Carl is a friend of mine I met. I had to be 12 years old and I got a gig to Busboy a couple weekends here and there, where my sister was a waitress at Carmelas on Bunker Hill, pennsylvania in Dunmore, and Carl, I thought, was my boss and Carl worked there as well. And do you have any memories of this?

Speaker 1: 3:12

Yeah, I do, Joe. I remember working and I think I was your boss.

Speaker 2: 3:16

You were, but I tell you I was much to chops. I thought you were already like, had a wife and kids. You were like two years older to be.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Well, at that age I actually was a little older than I I thought I was older than I was myself.

Speaker 2: 3:29

You had appeared. No, I didn't Not yet, but that was a great place. My brother worked there for a period of time and wonderful people. So, carl, thanks for coming on, and I thought maybe we could talk a little bit about your story into recovery. But for a little background, tell me about growing up in Dunmore. How would you describe your childhood?

Speaker 1: 4:00

I had a real good childhood. I didn't come from a very wealthy family or anything, but we didn't want for anything. My parents got divorced when I was five years old. My father remarried shortly thereafter, which I was blessed with two great sisters then, and then it was a great home life. Growing up. Nothing was out of the ordinary, it was just a normal life. There was no problems at home, nothing like that. I do remember from an early age, though, like birthday parties was always a party, not just a birthday party for the kids. There was always a party going on at my house.

Speaker 2: 4:51

There's a second party happening For sure. And what did that look like to you? If you had to remember from the eyes of the child that age like without an adult lens, what did it look like to you?

Speaker 1: 5:03

Well, I know the adults had just as much fun at our party. I think it was a great at our parties as the kids did. There was usually quite a bit of drinking going on. Everybody seemed to have fun. It never was a problem in my childhood that I saw.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Let me ask you this Was it easier, because of those parties, to connect with the adults in a way that seemed more meaningful than when they weren't drinking?

Speaker 1: 5:32

I think we were. I was probably always treated a little at that time, not so much as the kid, as a kid. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 5:41

So there's benefits to watching adults drink alcohol.

Speaker 1: 5:45

Right and for sure it seemed like a blast. Yeah, I don't remember ever arguing or any problems like that. Everything always seemed fun.

Speaker 2: 5:54

And was there any fear involved? Would things ever change during those parties? Like that you were, like there's a dark side to this. No, never.

Speaker 1: 6:03

It was always, you know, rock and roll playing and everybody had a good time. I never saw any problem.

Speaker 2: 6:10

Let's fast forward to high school, in the sense of when drinking became something that you knew you could rely on. How did that happen, and what did drinking mean for you Emotionally, maybe, in regards to giving you something that maybe you couldn't give to yourself.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Well, I always, and even go back to the Carmellas days. You know, I was pretty young. After a night of working and the older guys that were there, you know, I might have had a, a cocktail after work at a very young age because, you know, just like those guys, I worked hard and I deserved one. And you know, your brother was behind the bar and all of their friends were out at that bar and it was that's really where I want it to be. It was. You know, I was 12, 13, 14 years old and all these 20 year olds are at the bar on a Friday, saturday night and it seemed like an awful lot of fun to me.

Speaker 2: 7:15

That whole crew, too, was pretty dynamic. They looked like movie stars to me when I was a kid, when you know my brother, eugene Mo, all these guys I don't know there was. They looked like they, they were having fun. They didn't have a care in the world and they were. They were like for sure.

Speaker 1: 7:36

They good fellas movie just came out and they used to call me the kid Henry, and I wanted to be a gangster. I thought that was that was. That was going to be great. Obviously it didn't come to fruition, but which is a good thing. And then, of course, like the rest of our friends in Dunmore, underage, drinking down the cemetery, up the woods, football games, and I usually had a lot to do with throwing the parties, and so I was always pop. I was a popular kid and I didn't. I don't know if throwing the parties helped that, but but I usually got along with everybody and it was always a fun atmosphere. Then my at the time my father was kind of like a manager at Highles and I started bouncing there Still in high school, working at the door, wow. And then I really saw that this is what, this is where I want to be and that's where the action is. So I was always around it, always around the party.

Speaker 2: 8:49

And the really, from that perspective, what you're describing to me now there seems to be no other way to look at things except through. I don't want to generalize tonight life, but that the center of all activity could be in a bar and a restaurant.

Speaker 1: 9:09

It was for sure that that was, that was my main focus. Yeah, and I didn't see a lot of problems or consequences. And when I say that it's, it's um, um, there was plenty of times that the police had intervene. I would say, but, um, we, you know, we knew who the magistrate was, obviously, and there'd be a good chance we'd be understood, understood. So there wasn't a lot of consequences. Yeah, Even at that time frame, I got in a bad quad accident don't worry corners, Um, um in a coma for a little while.

Speaker 1: 9:58

I remember drilling my head and and I got up, you know, out of the hospital in a couple of days, anthony Cully was there to welcome me with a DUI. I was right back at it yeah, short shortly. And I didn't I made it out. I mean, it took a terrible toll on my family. I know the stress, but I didn't, I made it out. You know, I walked out there in a couple of days and I don't think it was long after that that I was right back at it.

Speaker 2: 10:29

Well, let me ask you this, carl was there a connection between drinking and the accident that? Did you just not make a connection, or you thought this is just normal, it's just bad luck?

Speaker 1: 10:42

Um, I thought it was. I come, I, I, I survived it, I come out of it and it's like, oh, you know, that was like a story. Oh, he was doing 70 miles an hour in a quad. Oh, my God, that's like it was almost cool, A trophy. It was almost a trophy, Um, and any normal thinking person, I think, would have said let's take, let's slow down here. And I didn't. I didn't, um, slow down. Like I said, I was back in it. How old were you? So I just turned, it was April I just turned 18.

Speaker 2: 11:21

18. I remember that that was scary. So were there lingering consequences from that, physically?

Speaker 1: 11:30

That depends what you ask, I guess.

Speaker 2: 11:32

You don't look different to me, man, no.

Speaker 1: 11:35

I had a lot of my face, was messed up pretty good with stitches and staples and I don't have you but I'm not not, not really.

Speaker 2: 11:41

So it's 18. So by 18, there's alcohol. Compromise the situation, would you say, that got you in a almost a life-threatening accident, in that sense.

Speaker 1: 11:52

For sure, but um, with that, the DUI aspect of it, DUI, you can't afford it, and all this, it's billboards and um, the consequences because of people that we were friends with and so on and so forth, weren't necessarily what.

Speaker 2: 12:13

A regular person may, and let's put that into context. This is a really small community. It's done more, and some of the help that you would receive on the back end of, say, a scenario like that looks like the real help someone wanted. So your life's not wrong that you're not straddled with some financial burden. This was an accidental. You've never I've been criminal or violent in that sense, so is that kind of the perspective someone you were viewing it as this? This is the help. This is help Someone's helping.

Speaker 1: 12:45

Yeah, they're helping you, they're helping you, and so the trouble wasn't that big. I went through the ARD program and I passed that.

Speaker 2: 12:55

Good job.

Speaker 1: 12:56

Thank you. So I moved on to my you know, you're up to 21 years old at that age and I kept asking John Isle, I wanted to bark, then I wanted to bark that was my you know and eventually I got there. I got to the point he gave me a Saturday afternoon and a bachelorette party came in, I remember, and I was scared to death and they wanted frozen drinks and the bottom of the mix, the blender, fell off.

Speaker 1: 15:17

It spilled all over the front of me and that's all my first day bartending went. But I said, well, if that happened today I could handle any of this. And before you know it I was there five nights a week.

Speaker 2: 15:29

And that was a hop and bar in our area. Yeah, and the big night was Mondays.

Speaker 1: 15:34

On Monday night.

Speaker 2: 15:35

On Monday nights you had to be at Hiles.

Speaker 1: 15:37

Yeah, 800 people becoming through the door. And with that comes all the other bartenders, from Tanks to Woodlands, the bouncers. You know the grotto at Harvey's Lake, so you know every bartender, every bouncer in the area. So when you weren't there working anywhere, you went. You didn't pay to cover, Everybody knew you the drinks were free and it was you know.

Speaker 2: 16:01

It's a lifestyle. The restaurants and bars are a lifestyle, so you're getting out of work. At what time?

Speaker 1: 16:08

We get, we? Well, we'd close on the week at two and we'd leave there four, Four or five. And yeah, John used to tell us the alarm would go off at four if we weren't gone. So we'd be out of there by four and then you would either go home or you wouldn't.

Speaker 2: 16:27

And then what time you would sleep, till what time?

Speaker 1: 16:31

Sleep till till noon or something, and at that point I was actually running the lake every day. I was always a little insecure about my weight, yeah, so at that point I was really working on it, a lot working on it. So I'd get up and go run the lake.

Speaker 2: 16:50

And that's three miles. You run it three miles in the morning after putting a shift in like that. That's pretty. That's a lot of resiliency, that's pretty tough.

Speaker 1: 17:00

And then I was back at Ohio at four. At the time I had just started going on Lake Walnut Park. I met some friends up there, so Friday night after work I'd head up there. I'd be up at the lake, till you know, right after work and I'd stay there till Monday, till Monday morning.

Speaker 2: 17:19

At this point? What would you say? Your number one goal or dream was Like at that age. You'd now bar 10 to five nights a week in one of the areas most popular bars. What was your dream at that point? What would be the perfect life from that point?

Speaker 1: 17:40

I don't know that. I had a plan to dream. Then I did enroll in the Penn State because the rest of the bartenders were going to school and I figured I better do something. So I enrolled for an MIS program, which is funny, because I hate computers.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Yeah, what's MIS?

Speaker 1: 17:58

Management Information Systems at the time.

Speaker 2: 18:00

Oh boy, that sounds really awful.

Speaker 1: 18:02

It was terrible. I went through about a year and a half and it ran into somebody saying that Nibs was looking for me. They were looking for a full-time employee with the number DPW and at the time the price was right. I quit Penn State and started that, which was a good job. So now I was working for Dunmore and bartender full-time.

Speaker 2: 18:31

And at that age that's a lot of money.

Speaker 1: 18:33

It was a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 18:35

And you're probably making four more than anyone you went to school with, because if they were at school or at that age, they're not making that.

Speaker 1: 18:42

No, I was making $1,000 a week cash at Isles and then working for the borough. I did end up with a second DUI. Leaving a bachelor party, Some friends took my keys and they had wandered off and I grabbed them out of her purse and I figured I could make it home.

Speaker 1: 19:04

And I got my second one Little more consequences, but not a lot more at all Because, like you said, they were helping me out At the time. I ended up with 30 days house arrest, but they let me still. I was enrolled in Penn State. They let me work at Isles still. So I had to be home Sunday for about eight hours.

Speaker 2: 19:29

Did you go to treatment? Would you, were you required to go to an alcohol treatment center?

Speaker 1: 19:34

I did my, my dad's again.

Speaker 2: 19:36

Dad, just dad's, just dad's.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Okay, which was not. I didn't take it seriously. I had no intention of taking it seriously.

Speaker 2: 19:44

I haven't met anyone who has.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Right. So so I, you know, and I took the accelerator program for for like four Saturdays or whatever it was and got my little diploma and I was on my way. I'm you know I probably stopped at Coket.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Oscars or something on the way up out of Scranton. Yeah, I did have to go to them. 30 AA meetings with that sentence. And did you? I went to one? Yeah, I went to one. I don't remember the street. I still stopped there in meetings, but I'm. They used to be in the gym in the back of the church and I took Teddy Karnowski with me and not, and after the meeting I told them they had assigned it and they put their initials. I said no, you have to sign the, the paper. They said it's alcoholics, anonymous, we're not going to sign it. So I left there and I went to Highles and I passed it around the bar and got the rest of the um the signatures out the boat.

Speaker 1: 20:44

Yep, and I was good to go yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:50

And um, so still at that time at Highles, um, actually my father had hired my wife as a waitress she wasn't my wife then, obviously, and she was still going to school in Philadelphia and, um, we had a long term relationship, long distance rather, for um, for about a year and then she was moving back home and, uh, we moved in together so we had a house to a rent in Dunmore and my drinking was still, um, it was daily, yeah, daily, almost nonstop, nonstop.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Any any time that you experienced withdrawal during this time? A lot of it just maybe your standard hangover little dehydrated, blurry eyes Were you. Were you experiencing blurry vision? Maybe the sweats or any hands shaking? Not?

Speaker 1: 21:47

at that point Probably still Um. So then I don't know the exact year, but we decided, me and my father collectively, to um purchase a bar.

Speaker 2: 22:04

What year is this?

Speaker 1: 22:10

20, maybe 1920, 2019, somewhere, in there yeah. And the only problem that I ever had with argue. We didn't me and my wife never fought about my drinking or anything to that order. But finances have come up at that point yeah, cause to drink as much as I did cost a lot of money. So if I bought a bar, right, I didn't have to pay for my drinks anymore.

Speaker 1: 22:40

There's a strategy behind it and I don't know if it was a strategy that, I don't know if that was a my plan, but it was definitely a subconsciously. Something was you know, and now I could explain why I was at a bar, yeah you're working. I have to be there, I have to keep an eye on things. Even if I'm not working per se, I gotta keep an eye on everything.

Speaker 2: 23:05

And this was the bar on drinker street, right, and it was Jimmy's. Yeah, I remember, cause if you go to O'Hara you know what Jimmy says. Right, then it became Waggies, correct, that was a headquarters for everyone I knew from Dunmore for quite some time.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Yeah, and so that was. You know that was another on an alcoholics belt, like that was another check that I had. Yeah, um, still not a lot of problems, what? No, I shouldn't say that there was a getting to be problems, because you know now I was getting home later. Yet you know before that I would just your what you would expect from me from the amount of drinking I was doing. Yeah, I guess you could say, and then I'm, I'm trying to get my time frames together here, but in the process my father passed away. We got rid of the bar. You know, we got rid of the bar and it was about a year later I got a phone call and my father passed away, which was it?

Speaker 1: 24:21

was devastating, to say the least. He was my best friend and excuse me, and and we went through the whole funeral, the whole process, from the minute I got down to to my mother's house you know, my parents' house people started showing up and the booze was getting delivered. You know, people were dropping, dropping booze off, dropping alcohol off cases and cases and cases of beer, and that's what we always did. You and I both have lost a lot of friends through this. And in morning you drank in celebration. You drank for, for, whether you're mourning anything and whatever.

Speaker 1: 25:13

Whatever happened, you drank and you drank a lot of it and we went through the whole, the whole process the funeral, after funeral dinner at Carmella's, of course, and that was a Thursday and Friday. I told my wife I'm gonna go, I'm going to work, I have to get back to normal here, you know. And and I didn't, and I went drinking 6.30 in the morning like it was my job and I did that for for three years. I I any chance, any. I didn't even excuse anymore, I just was. I never mourned it and all I could do to get out to not think about it and not think about anything is to drink.

Speaker 1: 26:03

And here we, at this point, we have three children. I was there and I keep saying this I don't know if it's still so. I lie on telling myself but I was there for all of the kids' stuff, but not not really In body, I was, but in a hurry. I was always in a hurry to go, looking at my watch. What time's it gonna be over? Because I gotta make it. I gotta go help Joe move a couch.

Speaker 2: 26:29

You know, there was never a couch.

Speaker 1: 26:31

There was a job, but but we, you know, there was never. It was always some kind of made up story to go drinking.

Speaker 2: 26:40

I see that a lot the hardest cases of, maybe, people that would have denial that seemed to be what they would like to, you know, designate themselves as a functional alcoholic. They never take into account what they're not there for. Maybe they're not having the arguments or or the direct harms, but they're not there, you're just absent. Even when you are present and I'm really glad you mentioned that, because is this the life I want? The guy that's in a hurry? I can never be present unless I'm in the bar getting my medication, essentially to this, this growing anxiety, this revving motor that's in my gut, my chest, to go be somewhere else all the time. I mean it's a horrible way to live, but I didn't see it that way. Then I know how much you care about your family and all the, what kind of father you are, which is great. It's not too often you hear someone already start to understand those consequences of not not being present. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: 27:56

I had somebody tell me last year about and for all the activities I'm doing with my children, as I said, which is the best way to do it With my children, as I said, which I think I was, but I in reality I wasn't. And she said to me are you making up for something? And she kind of said it as a little shock and at first I was very offended by it. Sure, and the reason I was so offended by it was because she's right. You know she was right.

Speaker 2: 28:31

And so this is starting to crack. You're starting to notice it during the drinking and are you getting any relief from drinking around this period? You know you have unresolved grief. Is there any point where you have to, where you're getting just this drunk? Oh, there it is Like do you have to be totally annihilated to get?

Speaker 1: 28:50

No.

Speaker 2: 28:51

I wasn't.

Speaker 1: 28:53

I was getting no relief. At this point now I didn't want to drink anymore. I was to the point that I knew that, that I knew I didn't want it. Still, there wasn't a lot of there wasn't fighting in the house, I was just existing though, yeah, and in the morning I was so sick I couldn't brush my teeth. I couldn't. It was, it was the shakes all day. My work performance was horrendous. I'm tenfold over now and thank God they stuck with me through this. Since then I get a lot of that, a voice for the progress I'm making. But I was like I said. I went from having so much fun that I was in hell. I was literally in hell. I didn't know a way out. I didn't know a way out. There was no relief. I didn't ever get drunk. It's like a drunk you used to get.

Speaker 2: 30:05

And at this point did you think you even understood what AA was? That's just not for me Like. Did you have an idea, even if it was wrong, about what Alcoholics Anonymous was?

Speaker 1: 30:15

I did because I knew some people in the program and I kind of fast forwarded. I have gone in the past. I'm not going to say that I have relapsed, because I've gone to some meetings and I'd usually stop before and after for some drinks.

Speaker 2: 30:34

Yeah, just pop in.

Speaker 1: 30:35

I was doing it so that I could say I went. I did go down, with some help from John H at one point, to see John Silent K and I went in to do like a little exam per se down at the ice rink one time and he gave me a couple of little tests and he said you need to go to Marwart.

Speaker 2: 31:01

You studied hard, you passed.

Speaker 1: 31:03

And he said what do you mean? He said you need to go to treatment. I was like when he said right now, today, I said OK, let me call my wife to win the truck. I was gone, I went home. She said what do you say? I said he said they probably got to go to meetings, you know, because that's not what I wanted to hear yeah, um.

Speaker 1: 31:27

So I knew what it was and it wasn't going to work for me, I was sure of it. Yeah, um, so. So then, like I said at that point, I was very dependent on alcohol, I was sickly dependent, and so it would have been like May of 2000. There are bolts, and you got to bear with me because the time got really sketchy around it, but I passed out one night.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Not a drunk passed out. Something physical was wrong with me, so I got taken on the hospital and I had a hospital stay for a couple of days and it was um, my liver enzymes were up, sodium had plummeted and everything to do with alcohols, and I think I was there for two days. At that point and they're releasing me and my wife was at work and I called somebody to come and get me and eat and they what do you need? So I need beer, of course, and cigarettes, and I got picked up at the first hospital stay. That's how I got picked up and my health continued to deteriorate in that timeframe, from May moving forward through that summer, and I continued to drink. I saw my primary doctor, dr Dempsey. At that point I was getting John's eyes were yellow.

Speaker 1: 33:01

He told me you know, you're going to die. You know, quit drinking. And I said, okay, I'll quit drinking. And he referred me. I went to U Penn to see the liver specialist and they they, you know said the same thing you need to quit drinking. My liver enzymes at that time were up to almost 200.

Speaker 2: 33:20

And what's the normal one?

Speaker 1: 33:22

40. Well between 10 and 50, but like 40 is good and this whole time.

Speaker 2: 33:28

you know someone called the term cognitive. You know disassociation, dissonance, distortions. You have to avoid the idea that you're going to die, are you just like? It's something you could deal with tomorrow?

Speaker 1: 33:45

I didn't think they were correct and they're diagnosis.

Speaker 2: 33:51

You had an opposite opinion.

Speaker 1: 33:53

Yeah, you know, with my medical background, I was sure that they were wrong on all of this. Wow, and, as I said, I couldn't, couldn't, couldn't stop them. Yeah, that was. It was terrible. I was stuck in this hole and and even at that point I was, I was under verge of debating whether or not that was probably better off to be dead anyways, yeah, so, so I didn't see the use in. And this went on through them through the summer, through the summer. And just a recent conversation, as a matter of fact, last week with my wife. I asked her do you know? Did you you know I was drinking? And she said, no, I didn't, or I wouldn't let myself believe you were. Yeah, yeah, I could not believe that I was drinking because I couldn't have been that good at hiding it.

Speaker 2: 34:55

Then, because I'm but it's amazing what you can block out when you think someone might be giving up on their own life, so you can't allow yourself to believe it. The pain is just too great to let that kind of reality come into your head that you were giving up.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Right. So I ended up in and out of the hospital all summer, from May into October. Six, seven, eight.

Speaker 1: 35:29

I passed out again down the hospital and now, at this point, they knew, you know, I was a regular. No, no, I wasn't drinking and I seized it. I had a seizure from the. They could have medicated me, but with me lying to them they didn't. And when I seized them it was a disaster Black and blue, from my neck, my chest, everything, my bed, a big piece of my tongue off, and I woke up in the ICU, or whatever the situation, and my wife was staying there crying and I finally told her I was done. Wasn't this, you know, white light experience thing? But I said I'm done and I believed it. It wasn't like the other hundred times that I was done. And she was on the phone with Philly, my doctor, and Philly. They were more or less telling her at this point that you know, okay, he's done again.

Speaker 1: 36:44

Now, at this point, I was getting blood work once a week telling him I wasn't drinking, and they'd never said anything. I'd be down Philly every two weeks or whatever, and they would never say anything about me drinking. I was like ha, you know, I got you. Well, they were getting the blood results, but they're not going to. It's not their job to preach to me about drinking. Their job is, if I want to help, then they'll help me. There's 50 other people in the waiting room and they told me this the next week when I went down and I finally surrendered and I was a mess, and she told me Carl, there's 50 people out there that have liver disease that want to help themselves. Until you want to help yourself, we can't help you.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Wow, did that help? Kind of wake you up to the.

Speaker 1: 37:34

So at this point I was a couple of days sober. Um, you know, I seized and I and that's my sobriety date yeah, the over eight, and it could have been the six, seven, but who's who's sure so I went to him, I went up to Marworth Now, I got a ride up there. They took my license because of the seizure and I went up to Marworth and I walked in the bottom building because I was it was not familiar with it, and I was looking for a room and my counselor, gina, said you're not going to stay here now.

Speaker 2: 38:07

Excuse me, I'm going to get a drink.

Speaker 1: 38:18

Okay. So she said that, um, you're not going to have to stay because you already detoxed and you've been X amount of days sober. She's like what if somebody dropped you off up here? I told her I'd be down my grass. She's like well, you know where the closest bar is? I said I do, and it's all downhill. So, against my better judgment, she put me an intensive outpatient care and now, at that point, I'm still in complete liver failure, jesus. Um, so you know, we're back and forth to Philly now every and, like I said, the loud is blurry in this timeframe, but we're back and forth to Philly and, um, there's, they're hoping that I'm going to regenerate because, you know, your liver is your only organ, your body, that can heal itself if you didn't do enough damage to it.

Speaker 2: 39:18

Your reversible damage suit Right.

Speaker 1: 39:22

Um so I, um no, I also had a liver condition. Gromy hematosis, what's that? It's a liver disease. Okay, I'm not going to blame my situation on that Sure, it's a little bit of a shock. Sure Helped that out to 110% so so I don't want to make an excuse of why this happened.

Speaker 2: 39:46

So drinking daily for 20 years did have an effect.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Correct A little bit small fraction of the problem, of course. Um, so I was making my you know my treatments whenever I had to go up there. I think it was four nights a week. I don't like I said it was um cause Gina still bust me and I came strolling in there and and I was in rough shape. Um, so I did that from October till till round the holidays.

Speaker 2: 40:15

December, it'd be 90 days or.

Speaker 1: 40:17

Okay, and well, I still talk there. Yeah, you know, I still, I'm still doing a little bit of it.

Speaker 2: 40:24

I'm discharged per se, but I need all hell if I can get still so I am round the holidays there.

Speaker 1: 40:34

I um fell again and you pen told CMC not, they're not allowed to touch me anymore. They sent an ambulance for me, brought me down in day. I was in such bad shape. No, you need to be six months sober to get put on a liver transplant list. They determined that I was not going to survive this without a transplant, so they said that they were going to my doctor.

Speaker 1: 41:04

At the time, divya Roberts went to the transplant team at U Penn because evidently she had enough faith in me. At five and a half months sober she felt that I was going to stick this out. She talked to the transplant team and they'll give them me to work up and if I could survive a transplant, if they would put me on the list. So I was down there for I think 11 days Could be awesome and it's a series of testing. They're not going to give you a transplant if you're not going to live the survive, the surgery you know. So I survived the right past the testing and they put me on the list.

Speaker 2: 41:49

How are you dealing with anxiety then? What's your anxiety? What was your mindset? That you thought maybe I'm making a mistake, I should just give. Like I could think this way, give up and drink. I'm definitely not going to make it, but I might as well be drunk. This is the little time I had left it. Was that ever going through your head? Not now You're full bore commitment, you're good. You, even if you're going to die, were you going to die sober?

Speaker 1: 42:17

Yes, I was. So, I was fully, yeah, I was ready to. If I was going to die, I was going to die sober, and I was actually accepting that I was going to die.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Wow, Black, that's. I remember running into you here and there and it just that's intense right. Yeah, it definitely was.

Speaker 1: 42:45

I was just trying to do my best to put a show on for my kids. I thought I was yeah, they were scared to death. I thought I was putting this with the understanding.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Did they understand what was going on?

Speaker 1: 42:58

My older son did. Yeah, you know, hunter, he's just 12 now. Yeah, so that took a toll on him. Yeah, and I was still.

Speaker 1: 43:08

I remember one time it was probably in the fall still there that I had taken my younger son to a baseball game and at the end there I was done to 118 pounds and I fell and because of the medicines I was on I was bleeding. They were trying to get an ambulance. Now I was getting confrontational because I didn't want my and my son he ran on to baseball field. It was terrible, you know, because he was scared. So it was a real tough, hard time and so that they gave me all the testing and a lot of that from then to a lot of it?

Speaker 2: 43:54

I don't remember.

Speaker 1: 43:55

I was kind of just going through the motions and right before it was the end of March, it was April.

Speaker 1: 44:08

My wife's family had a wedding down at a ski resort in Allentown. My wife didn't want me to go, not that she didn't want me to go, but scared. Right before that she had gotten the phone call that I had about two weeks to live and I didn't know about it. So I said no, I'm going to this wedding, you know. So we had to go get me a new suit because I was never 118 pounds since fifth grade?

Speaker 1: 44:33

No, probably not then either, and I went down with my me, her and my son, with Don it was, and I remember I went outside, it was, snow was just melting and there was a dead tribute band playing outside on the rocks and I was like I'll be out there because I just wanted to be outside and hear the music.

Speaker 1: 44:54

You know I've been in the house all winter and man I was. I was like I was ready. I didn't think I was coming out of this and I was accepting it. And we didn't went into that wedding and most of the people didn't know I was there because they didn't recognize me physically. So it was about two weeks later it was it was April 25. Greg called me. Greg Hunt asked me if I heard anything and I said no. I said you'll be the next one I call. Next time you hear from me, that means something happened About 20 minutes later the phone rang and it was 215.

Speaker 1: 45:45

And they told me they got me a liver. And I called my wife. She said I said get ready, we got to go. And she's like where are we going? I was at the beach and you can hear banging off walls like in the. I called Greg back. It was about 20 minutes. He's like you got to be kidding me. I said I don't know how you did it.

Speaker 1: 46:06

But I'm on my way, so we we got down there and it was like I said, a lot of my memories got at this point, but I know I gave my wife a kiss and told her, I loved her 17 hours later I was done and I was down there for about 14 days I think, and they wanted me to come home and go to Allied for a while.

Speaker 1: 46:37

But I was going home. Then I said I'm not going, don't, let's not make save that for somebody there. And I went home and it went through. A April recovery period was I went back to work in like Christmas time, but I mean the recovery was half a year, over a year, yeah it was a pretty rough go around.

Speaker 2: 47:03

What does it feel like your liver is removed. You have a new one in there. Like can you what is the sensation of that? Like what does it feel like Out of the scoring and major surgery? Can you internally like are you feeling something different? Like what does that feel like?

Speaker 1: 47:21

So when I came home I was singing a lot and I wanted to get a guitar. My wife's guitar from the attic, yeah, and she's like this was like 45 minutes and she's like you're not going to the attic in the guitar. And I said I really need to. She's like not today.

Speaker 2: 47:40

You don't need to learn how to play the guitar today because I didn't know how to play the guitar, maybe the the livers from a guitar player.

Speaker 1: 47:47

So I was back and forth with the gift of life through some communications.

Speaker 2: 47:53

And what's the gift of life?

Speaker 1: 47:55

If the life is the program, who, who you know?

Speaker 2: 47:57

if you are an organ donor, your organs go to the gift of life, and then they will supply them with people you know organ donies and needs throughout the country.

Speaker 1: 48:11

So if you are the family member of the donor, you will be in contact and they will tell you what organs were donated. So many got whatever. Yeah, yeah, and you can write a thank you note if they want to write a thank you note and so so they know. After the process to give the life, comes to me with a counselor because it's a big deal. It's a big deal. I have somebody's somebody lost a life to give me a life second chance. So there was a thank you.

Speaker 2: 48:51

There was a there was.

Speaker 1: 48:52

I wrote a thank you note. I didn't know where it was going, didn't? Know anything about it A couple of months later. It's not exactly a streamlined operation. They do what they have to do. I understand, but once later I got a response.

Speaker 2: 49:08

Not knowing anything.

Speaker 1: 49:10

I got a letter from gift of life, and so then they asked if I would want to communicate with the donor's family, and I said yes. So the first letter I got was no name, just a letter.

Speaker 1: 49:34

No, I'm sorry, the letter that I did get. It was had a name and I'm not going to use names in here, but it's true the wife of the gentleman who's liver I got, and he had an accident on the 23rd and he fell off a roof and he was brain dead and they made the decision to be generous enough to give his organs, which in turn saved me. And but in this two paragraph letter of 25 years of marriage, she chose to write about that he was a songwriter in the guitar player.

Speaker 2: 50:14

Oh, wow, so what.

Speaker 1: 50:16

Right Of anything she could have chose to write about. That's what she wrote to me, and I had to go home and get this guitar.

Speaker 2: 50:29

I'm a skeptical guy, most of my life kind of cynical, but it's just so strange, so strange to not have some meaning.

Speaker 1: 50:42

So so that explains me going singing and wanting that guitar. And if there was a more to it, then why did she write about that? Why did she pick that? Or of everything?

Speaker 2: 50:56

Out of everything that's possible.

Speaker 1: 50:57

Right.

Speaker 2: 50:59

Everything that's possible. I'm just you know, I don't sit and think about it often Of what it's like or what it means you can get an organ put into you that saves you. I had an ACL replacement and I would think, even like a hundred years ago, you'd be out of commission for the rest of your life, like with a knee, that you're alive because there's another person's liver in you. That's wild.

Speaker 1: 51:31

Well, I'm alive because of unselfish ununselfish thing that somebody chose to save my life, not knowing me, not knowing whose life they're going to save, but it's just an unbelievable gift that I was given, which all ties into my recovery, because this isn't just and it never was just about me, but there's other people involved. Now you know I owe them that respect.

Speaker 2: 52:09

Never and I'll call again.

Speaker 1: 52:11

I can say that I won't do it today. But as long as I get up every morning and say that and I just found I just got in contact with, so fast forward a little bit again. We went through the letters and then I got another letter saying that she wanted to, would it be okay to contact each other?

Speaker 1: 52:35

And it was five months ago or so in the springtime. I got a and I said yes and I gave my information and I left a meeting peace and serenity and I got a text email. I'm sorry, and I was at a red light and I opened it and here's the woman's name and phone number.

Speaker 1: 53:07

Now it was like this was real now and I sat at the green light and I called Gina from Marworth and she says pull over. Are you having a panic attack? I said I'm not sure, but I'm like it was very emotional to think that I'm going to speak to this woman, and I've since then spoke to her numerous times. We have a relationship. It's not a big fast moving. We're not going to go to Christmas dinner, but we talk Wow.

Speaker 2: 53:40

And you know she lost a husband.

Speaker 1: 53:43

You know, two kids lost a father. So it's it's. It's definitely an emotional situation, but but it just gives me more of a reason. I originally got sober for my, for my kids and my wife and my family and my friends and I just was able to celebrate three years the other day, that's last Sunday, and thank you, but I told them.

Speaker 1: 54:16

my wife came down and I gave her my. I never got a one year, one year coin because I was sober for. So, as I said, I didn't go to all through that time of the medical recovery I didn't have any thoughts of drinking. I was in such physical ailments already because of the recovery from the transplant. But later that year, about October I I was going out a little more people were, you know I was going to bars but I'd be up our property, up our club and people drinking, and a lot of them it was kind of like I had a like a scarlet letter on me a little bit.

Speaker 2: 55:03

first I was like I don't want to go near me.

Speaker 1: 55:06

I said listen, this is my problem, not yours.

Speaker 2: 55:08

If you guys are going to have some beers, yeah, but stay 10 yards or you're going to catch some alcohol.

Speaker 1: 55:14

You'll pick this up so but but a friend of ours called me in like October there it was right after a year sober. And he said you know, I know what you went through and stuff and it's, it's one of our mutual friends from childhood. But he said I'm going to this meeting over in the odd. Why don't you meet me there Sunday? And he's only been there a couple of times since, but that's all right, cause I went that first Sunday.

Speaker 2: 55:44

Yeah, I remember.

Speaker 1: 55:45

Yes, and, and it was so nice walking and seeing you and a couple of other friends of ours, because I don't know if I would have what would have happened if I didn't but a couple familiar faces is all it took and I haven't left, and I haven't left and I'm you know it's four or five meetings a week. I actually just got to do my first um commitment speaking engagement up at avenues recovery center. Yeah, Um, great, great experience for me.

Speaker 2: 56:14

Great place.

Speaker 1: 56:16

Um and all of this um just happen. I couldn't do this by myself. It's an accident, but because it is, I would never be able to stay sober. I don't think if I had this fellowship because, um, I I definitely felt like I was still missing something. So, camaraderie, some, I enjoyed going out, doing that stuff bars and and I enjoy going to the meetings. You know you get to talk a little bit, you get to. You know it's um, it's definitely helping me. Um and uh, I just hope, um that when I tell people you know what I went through at meetings and stuff, that that I could help somebody else.

Speaker 2: 57:03

And this is. You know, I was, I'm, I've seen it happen, I watched it even last week. Uh, you speaking at avenues. I heard some people up there mention that. Um, I'm interested in what is recovery in the, in this realm, using a 12-month-old self-step program? What has it done to the dynamic of your family we already deeply loved and admired? What did it change in the house?

Speaker 1: 57:31

Well, I bring more to yeah, I feel as though that I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm there for everything. Now, now, I really truly am, I'm there to their needs. They're why I did not put in myself 120% constantly first, because I always really did. It was for self-satisfaction. You know, I went to the, to the baseball game look at how great I am but I better get to the bar because I'm probably missing something. Um, now I'm truly there and focused on what's better for us.

Speaker 1: 58:09

Everything so far and free and I don't think you were there Sunday, but I was back to my coins here. So I got my two-year coin and I gave it to my wife the other day when I took my three-year coin, because the first three were for them. Now I have to do it for myself, because as long as I do it for myself, then I'll be there for them. You know, as long as I stay sober, then they have a good father, a good husband, and my friends have a good friend and I can be there for my family and it's just brought me so much closer with everybody. Um, everything is getting better. My, my, the world was. I was in a hell that I crawled out of Financially. It was a horrendous situation I had us in, I got myself about half dug out of the hole that I've made in my life. It's pretty good.

Speaker 2: 59:09

It's not bad.

Speaker 1: 59:10

Yeah, I just did it by accident. I just did it by accident. I go to the meetings I don't do and I was having a tough time about a year and a half ago really bringing myself down like how bad, like look what you did, everything you put in, and then I had to finally get my like, if I kept dwelling on that, it would have. It's a trap.

Speaker 2: 59:35

It's a total trap, man.

Speaker 1: 59:38

You know today's reflection. You know it talks about looking at yourself in the mirror. I was, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. Everything that was not going right per se for me, but I still had three beautiful kids, beautiful forgiving wife um forgiving God that I believe in, but nice house. You know, the white pick of fence Like I had a good job I had. I still have all of that and I. It was all in place when I was doing what I was doing, but I never, never, realized what I had Never got to experience it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:17

You were absent.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

Right and um, and I almost lost it all. I mean it was very close to me losing it all and now it's just, but my no fault of mine. It's getting rebuilt up around me with simple, simple steps of not drinking.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

Like I've known you my whole life and the time I got to spend with you and conversations the last two or three years is had a profound effect on me. The way, uh, I want to approach my family, uh, when I hear you talk or we have little conversations you know I don't get to always express that to you, but I take away a lot and I came back and humiliated. I was in an early surprise when we met again and, um, I am just so glad you're sober and could give insight to people who, being in your scenario, might not get out of bed and like, fuck, just give up. And that's not your story. That is not your story. It's a life lost and a life saved, and I think you're helping a tremendous amount of people.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

And that's why I had you on today, because, uh, you inspire me and, um, it's, it's it's having friends like you that keeps me sober, that I could talk to you, I could call you anytime. Um, I think that's what a lot of people feel at the end of their addiction. That will never happen to them. They're so isolated in their own head, own drinking. Um, your story is helping a lot of people. What would you say to uh, how do you? Is there something I didn't ask that you wanted to express?

Speaker 1: 1:01:56

No, no, I think that's about it, Joe. Um, uh, you know just everybody out there. They need to know there's help out here. Yeah, like you said, I mean, I know your phone's always on, mine is as well, and um well, there's new rules.

Speaker 2: 1:02:10

I got to turn it off at nine. I'm going to get you out.

Speaker 1: 1:02:13

Yeah, you will, you will see. You know it's going to get worse.

Speaker 2: 1:02:17

Yeah, so, um, I'm really glad you came by and I'd love to have you on again and I hope you uh come and meet the guys in the next couple of weeks. But, uh, as a waggy like, thanks for coming by.

Speaker 1: 1:02:31

Thanks, Andrew.

Speaker 2: 1:02:33

I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of all better. To find us on all betterfm or listen to us on Apple podcasts, spotify, google podcast Stitcher, iheart Radio and Alexa. Special thanks to our producer, john Edwards, and engineering company 570 Drone. Please like or subscribe to us on YouTube, facebook, instagram or Twitter and, if you're not, on social media you're awesome. Looking forward to seeing you again and remember, just because you're sober doesn't mean you're right.