"Give Mom a Break!" with Danelle Marushock (CRS)

Danelle Marushock is a Certified Recovery Specialist Supervisor with six years of experience working in the drug and alcohol field. Danelle is committed to connecting with individuals by meeting them where they are at in their own journey by offering support, compassion and understanding
Sober since December 26 2015, Danelle is active in her recovery community. When not at The Recovery Bank, you can find Danelle spending time with her husband Chad and their two children, Chad & Lindsey, who inspire her daily to work hard to be of service to others. Danelle also enjoys long car rides, and reading and spoiling her 4 dogs: Mack, Elly, Stella and Archie

Recently, Danelle has been accepted to SUNY Empire to continue her education in Human Services Management, B.S.

Danelle is committed to bringing hope to others and helping individuals recognize that they are not alone.

“Sticks in a bundle are unbreakable” 

Counselor Assistant at The Retreat at White Birch Outpatient

March 29, 2019 - Present

Counselors Assistant at The Retreat at White Birch Outpatient

February 18, 2019 - Present
·Carbondale, Pennsylvania

Operations /IT Coordinator at Clearbrook Treatment Centers

December 12, 2018 - Present
·Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania

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Transcript

Joe Van Wie  0:03  
Hello and thanks for listening to another episode of all better. I'm your host, Joe van wie G.

Today's guest is Danelle Mara shock. Danelle is a certified recovery specialist. She's also the supervisor at the recovery bank with six years of experience working in the drug and alcohol field. The nail is committed to connect you with individuals by meeting them, where they are at their own journey by offering support, compassion and understanding. We're going to talk a little bit about that today. The difference between meeting someone where they're at CRS position versus what you might be familiar with in 12 step recovery groups. Danelle has been sober since December 26 2015. She's an active in her recovery community. When she's not at the recovery bank you can find Danelle spending time with her husband chat are two children, Chad and Lindsey, who inspire her daily to work hard to be of service to others. Good now also enjoys on car rides, reading spoiling her for dogs, Mac le Stella and Archie. Recently, Danelle has been accepted to State University of New York Empire SUNY Empire to continue her education and human services management. So today we get to find out a little bit about her background and what compelled her to a life of service in the drug and alcohol field. Let's meet to know.

Okay, we're here with Janelle. Janelle. Thanks for coming in.

Danelle Marushock  1:57  
Joe, thanks for having me.

Joe Van Wie  1:59  
Is this your first podcast?

Danelle Marushock  2:01  
Very first,

Joe Van Wie  2:02  
this is my 31st I'm still figuring out what I'm doing. I'm glad to came over to chat. There's a lot I want to talk about. But first, I was thinking maybe a little background to know where are you from?

Danelle Marushock  2:17  
So I was born and raised in Bradford County. town called I loosing actually we lived on the outskirts up on a mountain called Sugar Hill, Sugar Hill Sugar Hill. And and that's where I was born and raised. Probably 2829 years ago is when I moved to the Scranton area troop. Do you feel comfortable here yet? In truth? I just found my way around. Screw it. And

Joe Van Wie  2:52  
so the Sugar Hill though? Yes. Is this the genesis of the Sugar Hill gang? Oh, this

Danelle Marushock  2:58  
is just you know, getting to any mall, hospital grocery store, anything like that was either 20 minutes to the grocery store or 45 minutes to get to any kind of city.

Joe Van Wie  3:09  
Was that normal though? Did you feel like that? Oh, yeah. was odd.

Danelle Marushock  3:15  
No, that was normal. Coming to true. Coming to the Scranton area was odd. You know? Yes, neighbors are right there.

Joe Van Wie  3:23  
I had a cousin that grew up in troop and I had to be in fourth grade. I'm up there, visit him in the afternoon. And we're gonna go ride bikes, and his mom's just warning us of caution and stuff. She goes, he goes, Mom, it's fine. He He's lives in the city. Grant. Yeah. So he grew up. It was kind of rural. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And what's the high school down there?

Danelle Marushock  3:53  
Why loosing Valley Junior Senior High School? Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  3:57  
Would that look like how many people how many people were in your senior class?

Danelle Marushock  4:01  
Oh, I have no idea. Maybe 100? Maybe a little maybe, you know, it's so they have different towns. There was like four different towns New Albany, Camptown. Ye loosing and Lacey Ville. They all had their elementary center. But then everybody came to one high school. Yeah. In sixth grade, or seventh grade. We started there. Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  4:22  
Is it similar to Scranton? Is it generational? Like friends, friends, parents or friends from that high school?

Danelle Marushock  4:31  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so, you know, our groups that we grew up with, whoever our family we're friends with, or is who you're who we were friends with their their kids, you know? Yeah, it's just it's peaceful. Freedom, you know, lots of experiences being in the country right. So, the Woods Nature arm.

Joe Van Wie  5:01  
Is it still an element in aging in your life? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was there a time that that did addiction? disconnect that? Oh, yeah. We'll talk about that. Because So, when did you first realize that alcohol or anything else could do something for you that maybe you can do for yourself?

Danelle Marushock  5:24  
That was 1515. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, growing up, you know, my parents had friends who were parents or who, you know, had kids around my age. And there was probably four groups of them. And they, they would get together once a week and play cards, you know, and on the weekends, they do like these building bees, they built pole barns, you know, you name it, they built it. But you know, there was always the party aspect around it, you know, but I can remember as a kid sitting in the living room and watching the different card tables set up in them sitting around, you know, drinking and playing cards, smoking and thinking. I can't wait to be like that. Yeah. I can't wait for that. Just that laughter That, that. That fun, that it looked like they were having, you know,

Joe Van Wie  6:18  
to now set the tone what kind of music is being played in this room?

Danelle Marushock  6:22  
Oh, there's no music. No, is just loud. Laughing. There's a lot of cursing, you know, smoking their cigarettes, you know, and just a lot of laughing.

Joe Van Wie  6:32  
Yeah. And was, was that a departure from a regular event and in the house growing up that when that the tables got set up, people started acting a little more lighthearted. Oh, connection. Everybody's

Danelle Marushock  6:49  
hair got let down? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's not a fun competition.

Joe Van Wie  6:56  
So you drank and do you remember the first time you got on? I

Danelle Marushock  7:00  
do I blacked out. Which, by the way, I didn't learn what blackout was until I entered recovery. Really, you know, that's where I got educated on. On a lot of things. Yeah. But, so I was 15 We were at a party and, and I was allowed to drink. And, and I, I drank, and I remember feeling like, Man, I'm in it now. You know, I've arrived, I've made it, you know, and I don't really remember a lot about it. I just remember, you know, what my, my family had told me after, you know, do you remember this? Do you remember that? And I didn't remember any of it. And I couldn't wait to do it again.

Joe Van Wie  7:46  
And that wasn't uncommon for say, the safety or this kind of, say the the logic of drinking at home with the family of 15 is the logic that it's safer at home. People are going to you know, kids are gonna drink or to do it here. Eyes. Oh,

Danelle Marushock  8:03  
absolutely. You know, if you're gonna do it anywhere, do it here. Yeah. You know, now, I'm not saying that, you know, 15 was, you know, the, okay, here's your freedom to drink whenever you want it. You know, it wasn't that it was okay. We're all at this, this function. You know, everybody's going to be drinkin. If you're gonna do it. I'd rather have you do it here. graduation party is the same thing. We'll throw the graduation party, you know,

Joe Van Wie  8:29  
and then people could stay at the house. Yeah, yep. Yeah, that was common. I had a couple friends that was their houses were a bastion of safety drinking.

Danelle Marushock  8:41  
It was it was the norm. Yeah. You know.

Joe Van Wie  8:45  
So you blacked out and and for anyone maybe that doesn't understand what a blackout? How would you describe a blackout? It's not passing out?

Danelle Marushock  8:54  
No, it's not passing out. It's just not remembering. Yeah. You know. So you had this, you did that. But in my case, I always acted as if I knew. Yeah, you know,

Joe Van Wie  9:08  
what do you think you did that? Will it scare you to think you were operating?

Danelle Marushock  9:11  
Well, I didn't want somebody to say you can never do that again.

Joe Van Wie  9:14  
Oh, wow. That's yeah, you protect, protect you disease. And what do you remember prior to blackout? Like? How would you describe the state of your mind emotionally versus was there a sense of relief?

Danelle Marushock  9:33  
Oh, yeah. I can be me. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Van Wie  9:38  
And you didn't feel that way prior to drinking?

Danelle Marushock  9:41  
No. You know, I think I think I always struggled to fit in. I worked really hard at being who I thought others thought I should be. So I never had any real idea of who's to know.

Joe Van Wie  9:58  
Yeah. What is it seems like

Danelle Marushock  10:03  
it's not driven by, you know, the how I was raised or things like that. It's just it's just how I felt I felt disconnected. You know, I didn't feel smart enough. I didn't feel you know, athletic enough. You know, but I, I pretended a lot.

Joe Van Wie  10:22  
Yeah, up to 15. And then once you were drunk, you didn't have to pretend me, you know? Well, so just in summary, where did where does that take you? How does that progress from 15 to the first times that you start to have a manageability consequence? That it did happen quickly? Are you able to parse this out and protect alcohol for a while? So I

Danelle Marushock  10:49  
think, you know, I, it started off with a here and there thing, you know, I had that at 15. And then let's like it, then there's like this gap of time that goes by, you know, I wasn't the person in high school, who was skipping school to go party. I was afraid of getting caught, you know, in weekends weren't, you know, weren't in the woods and partying or anything like that came a little bit later, you know?

Joe Van Wie  11:19  
And do you would you say there's a family structure around you, too, that would bring consequence to that kind of behavior? That wouldn't be you wouldn't be able to hide that in your circle? No. So yeah, that helps. There's guardrails around you? Yeah,

Danelle Marushock  11:33  
there's that there was that fear of getting caught? And then what was the consequence? Gonna be? You know,

Joe Van Wie  11:41  
it's dangerous when it goes away? Yeah. Or went away early?

Danelle Marushock  11:44  
You know, I don't think looking back, my disease really took off until, you know, late 20s. Well, I know, you know, I got married and, and we, we moved into our new home, and that's when alcohol then became a part of the home structure, you know, it was in the refrigerator. And, and it was there, you know, so, you know, your average out on the weekends and, and things like that, but the progression definitely was there. And it was slow at first, you know,

Joe Van Wie  12:18  
if you had to pick by your late 20s. Like, looking back in hindsight, put it under a microscope, what benefits even though this is becoming an addiction, what benefits? If you looked at alcoholism medication Do you think it's providing?

Danelle Marushock  12:37  
Well, what benefits so in my mind, it gave me courage, it took away anxiety, it took away fear. It allowed me to, you know, fit in to feel a part of had friends. You know,

Joe Van Wie  12:57  
I think it's hard to see, especially if someone gets into late stage addiction. To go back and point, well, this actually helped for a long time. And it's a shortcut to help. But we're hoping it'll work again, by the time everyone thinks drinking is just the problem. And I think that's hard. It's counterintuitive to point at why can't they see why drinking is destroying them, but at some point for the first two thirds of an addiction, it's, there's a trade off, it's doing something definitely. So late 20s, what's the home life look like? How many people are in the house?

Danelle Marushock  13:34  
So it's, it's myself, it's my husband, it's my, my, our newborn son, you know, when he was two at the time when we moved into the house, and, and then, a little while later, along, came our daughter, and, you know, hey, look on the outside, everything looked great, you know, and, you know, on the inside, it really still wasn't that unmanageable, you know, my, you know, I alcohol was my first drug of choice for a long time. And I was able to, quote, unquote, manage it. So I thought, you know, and protect it really. You know, for for a long time. There were times throughout that I remember, you know, my husband would say, I come home and you're drinking. Like, there's something wrong with that. You're drinking alone into me. I was like, What's wrong with that? You know, and yeah, it those are just some moments that really, that I look back and think about now. So, I was like, in my, my late 30s, that, you know, alcohol just wasn't working anymore. Like, it just wasn't working. You know, and I'm angry, and I'm frustrated. And are you miserable?

Joe Van Wie  15:06  
Are you getting drunk when you don't expect it? Like trying to make it work it?

Danelle Marushock  15:11  
I'm getting drunk to get drunk. I'm getting drunk to black out to go to bed. You know?

Joe Van Wie  15:18  
Didn't know if there was any periods of sobriety by that point, like, Well, how would you describe them outside of withdrawal you have withdrawal are like

Danelle Marushock  15:30  
painful, yeah. Mentally painful.

Joe Van Wie  15:34  
And if someone at that time told you the solution, like, Hey, you have a drinking problem, or this is alcoholism, you have to stop drinking. What would you think your mind at that that time? What would you look at sobriety as?

Danelle Marushock  15:51  
I don't even know if I can answer that because it wasn't even sight. Yeah, wasn't even a site will probably look like torment. Or, you know, I'd be like, I'll show you, you know, and, and, and put the drink down for a while. And there was a time when I did do that, you know, unmanageability starts to come, you know, and, and, and consequences. And, you know, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I need to stop. And I stopped. And, you know, I remember being on my knees every morning and asking God, like, please help me to not drink today, you know, and restless, irritable, discontent, all of that stuff comes with it. I was. I was, um, I was like, here's how I worded it like a bitch on wheels, right? Because I knew everything there was to know about everything, like all of those character defects that I find out about in recovery, but didn't know at the time, come right to the surface, right to the surface. So the pride is there, the egos there? It's all there. And but I'm not aware of any

Joe Van Wie  16:59  
No, no, he can't be not aware of it. So another way to describe that whatever is happening, emotionally, a thought, or a feeling in your mind is what you are. You're just, you're just stuck in the wave of whatever the motion is. This is what who you are. That's how I felt like, I could not see that there was agency behind when I'm immediately feeling like, I need to step back. That's looking back at it, man. I look like a hostage to my own brain. Yeah, like, there's just some There's me like you were describing earlier. Who you gotta be. It's buried by so many things. Just, I have no, I feel like I had no will over. It's a nightmare. periods of sobriety are saying so you would do this test? What would that be? Would that be like an exercise to get everyone off your back? Just?

Danelle Marushock  17:52  
Yeah, absolutely. Protect the disease again, right. Like, just to prove like, I am not, I don't have a problem. You know, yeah, I don't need this.

Joe Van Wie  18:03  
And alcoholics can't stop drinking kinda is a principle you're working off. Like, if I could stop, this would prove there's no problem. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. For a period of time. And what do you think the longest period was? Was it like a lent thing? Or

Danelle Marushock  18:17  
no, so it that the, the scenario I was just giving, you know, about putting drink down and on my knees and asking God to help me not drink that day. I'm gonna say, probably held on to that for about four or five months. And then, you know, we were at we were at a church picnic, ran into some friends. You want to have a beer? And I remember looking at my husband and saying, What do you think? And him saying, I think you'll be okay. Yeah. You know, and maybe those weren't the direct words, but it's what I heard. Sure, you know, and, um, so we got to beer. And an off again, we went, you know, so anytime that there was destruction, that not destruction, destruction, you know, anytime that my family was suffering from my drinking, I'd stop. Yeah, for a little while, until I just couldn't take it anymore.

Joe Van Wie  19:19  
It's funny, you know, in 12, step life, even in Narcotics Anonymous, in a makes a whole chapter of this point, I think, you know, someone who's a family member doesn't, can see this. The whole chapter, it's like more about alcoholism, has nothing to do with really drinking. It's these periods of sobriety. Why don't we find a homeostasis from it, or this? You know, this universal truth that I can't safely drink again, and you see two examples in that chapter. Jim and Fred, and they both stopped drinking for a period of time and some of the the other guy has a connection with a But he, he, he didn't have a plan on drinking, you went to a church picnic, this guy stops at a roadside diner, you know, he had a fight with his boss, he's working at a shitty job at a place he used to own. That's kind of psychotic, be resentful. But out of nowhere that four or five months, you remember that? I wanted to talk about that more, because you probably felt safe. Like you reset a clock that like, okay, there might have been issues, but that that pattern broke. Let me have a reentry. It's never a consideration that I don't ever have to drink again. So when you went to the church, that picnic, there wasn't a plan to drink? What No, no,

Danelle Marushock  20:43  
no, no plan. No plan, you know, in the night before I got sober, or before I asked for help, I should say, there was no plan of drinking that day, either. You know, because I had really disappointed my family again, the night before. And I got up Christmas Day. And I was like, I'm not drinking today. You know, and, and we got to, to the family's house, and and all it took was for for somebody to just say, Hey, do you want a glass of wine? I was like, Yeah, you know, but first looking over their shoulder to make sure that there was enough because if there's not enough, we're not even getting started. You know, it's gonna be it's Yeah. So it's just, it's, it's just, there's no thought in between. It's Yes.

Joe Van Wie  21:38  
And at this time, the amount you would need to get where you need to be a lot. It's a lot,

Danelle Marushock  21:44  
a lot and stronger. Right. So it goes from, you know, beer to wine to, to liquor to vodka, you know. So eventually, you know, I was 38 years old and tried my first substance, you know, and, and that's really where, where life started to spiral.

Joe Van Wie  22:05  
Yeah, because alcohol wasn't working. Tolerance is high. It's hard to keep alcohol that long to relieve anxiety, of loneliness, the dread of life feeling like I'm asleep. I would only feel awake when I drank. Yeah. Being sober felt like, like, half asleep. Nightmare. Yeah, I had a drink. So you add something to it. And this, this gives kind of a newfound relief. It's

Danelle Marushock  22:33  
sure it's like, oh my god, where's this been all my life? You know, like, it was. I'm back in the game. Yeah, you know?

Joe Van Wie  22:41  
And what does it look like? How does that come to a close that lets that accelerate the dysfunction? Oh, yes, absolutely.

Danelle Marushock  22:48  
There's, there's total chaos unmanageability arguing and just sheer disappointment. You know, my, my family, meaning my husband and my kids had a front row seat to my disease. You know, and, and that destruction alone is mortifying, you know, but that's that's the power of the disease doesn't matter who it's affecting, you know?

Joe Van Wie  23:20  
And at no point I mean, you think you couldn't articulate this this was an addiction this is something like if you had to stop I guess you're gonna have to deal with it. Do you didn't What was your like your level of information of what

Danelle Marushock  23:34  
well my thought was you know if I put these other substances down, which is what I did, you know, I just go back to the alcohol Yeah. Which is what I did.

But it didn't work anymore. It just didn't work anymore. I couldn't get there. And then I was just angry. I was an angry drunk

Joe Van Wie  23:54  
that's worse as well. Worst. Yeah, you're asleep in your own head. I feel like I'm trapped in like I'm not part of my experience. I'm Heidi minute watching all this disappointment I'm causing or hiding my my unmanageability from people but I couldn't be around family because I was being fraudulent like I need help and I can't I can't say this like I I'll take care of this. I'll tell everyone after I get better.

I used to think I'll get sober first then go back to them some do bad luck and logic like I'll come back as a to be celebrated. I'll be good look at Joe did it on his own for a year now he's back Yeah. Oh, that's fucking crazy.

So it comes to the end and he started to describe it. It's it's Christmas. That's an intense time for a lot of people

Danelle Marushock  24:49  
come to wall on Christmas, any event, you know, I have to have something just to feel a part of to be able to mingle to be able to talk to have a conversation to you know Sit at the table and talk about things like in my mind, I needed to have something. Yeah, you know, little buzz. By that time a little buzz was just non existent if it's drunk.

Joe Van Wie  25:12  
And then without it, you're you're in unresolved paint. It's pain and anxiety. Yeah. And shame. Yeah.

Danelle Marushock  25:21  
guilt, shame, remorse. It's all embarrassment. It's all there.

Joe Van Wie  25:26  
You gotta tie family. So what did this confrontation look like that brought you to? Kind of your entry into recovery in your entry is no little on. It's it's old school? What? What do I mean by that? You tell me?

Danelle Marushock  25:42  
Well, here, I had no idea about AAA. I had, I was naive to the whole thing. You know, I was even naive to treatment, you know, like, we didn't talk about treatment. Nobody went to treatment, you know,

Joe Van Wie  25:58  
hey, guess who went to treatment to see I wanted to bring this up to you guys.

Danelle Marushock  26:01  
Know, those conversations were happening, you know. So at the end, you know, I experienced, you know, a devastating consequence. Right. So that caught my attention a little bit. Yeah, a little bit, but never did I did I think, well, this is my problem. You know, what I mean, alcohol is my problem, you know? And that consequence, you know, well, how do I fix this? Well, I know God. So I go to church every morning at 8am. And I'm on my knees. And I'm, you know, asking God put me on a path, right? Whatever path that looks like, because I really felt like the walls were going to come down. Yeah, you know, and never looking at alcohol is the problem. So I would pull into this church parking lot. And at 745. And I would see these people walking up out of the basement. There's like, maybe eight or 10 of them. And I was like, Are these people? Where are they coming from? And what are they doing down there? You know, yeah. Blew my mind. And I remember calling my husband one time and saying, like, these people are walking out of the basement, there's only a handful of them, like, what are they doing down there before church? Yeah, when they into you know,

Joe Van Wie  27:30  
this is how you recognize that is wild.

Danelle Marushock  27:33  
So I go into church, do my deal on my knees, asking God, you know, put me on a path, whatever that looks like, scared to death, thinking still the walls are coming down, but still showing up every morning at 745 to keep an eye on these people coming out of the base protecting

Joe Van Wie  27:48  
the church.

Danelle Marushock  27:50  
Right. So I had a conversation with my sister in law, who goes to that same church. And, and I said, you know, there are these people that are coming out of the basement, and I don't know who they are. Now, at this time, her son, my nephew, was in recovery. And she said, Oh, I think I know what that is. They have an AAA meeting down there. That's a cult. Like. That explains it, you know, but what is this a that you're talking about? You had no idea? No, I did. No idea. So I did have a thought of maybe going down there. Yeah. But I still continue to show up every day at 745 and go into the church upstairs. You know. And you're curious. That's pretty curious. Yeah. Right. And now I know that, you know, this is something that my nephew's a part of who was able to get sober and stay sober.

Joe Van Wie  28:49  
So you have that connection. And then just visually the people you see leaving the church. Did they surprise you that they didn't have like trench coats out? Like did they look fairly normal?

Danelle Marushock  29:01  
Here's how they came out. Oh, yeah. Normal. Whatever. That looks like. A roller skates. They were smiling. They were having conversations they'd eat they smoke a cigar some of them would smoke a cigarette before getting in their cars the part ways they'd hug each other and

Joe Van Wie  29:17  
is this so Did it look

Danelle Marushock  29:18  
inviting? It did? Yeah, it did. Yeah. And so you know, that's when I started to hear this. This this AAA stuff. And so my nephew was dating a girl at the time. They're married now and have two beautiful boys. And she was a year and a half sober. So it's Christmas. I'm drinkin, we're all together and divine intervention blackout drunk. And I do remember standing in front of them in saying Now I said how the FDA do it. So how the hell do you do that? Like, how? How are you smiling? How are you? Happy? How are you? And you're not using anything? Yeah. Like it blew my mind blew my mind. She took my cell phone, she put her number in my cell phone, she said, Call me tomorrow. So I called her got up in the morning. And my husband said, Do you remember last night? Right? That was always the question. And I thought I do. It was divine intervention, you know? And he said, Are you gonna call? And I said, I am. So I called her. And she took me to my first aid meeting. Wow.

Joe Van Wie  30:47  
Just hearing you describe that situation? You know, I've had periods of sobriety. And, you know, when I was young 24 I got sober, I would hear people. Like, I'd be out at a bar. And someone would say, How the fuck do you do that? Like laughing I keep hear the bitterness. But, you know, when I was sober, I could put that aside, I knew they were really asking, like, it sounds like an attack. But it isn't. Like it's almost a frustration. Like, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. And so you did that. And it could probably come off as aggressive sometimes. But you really want to know, where am I? How do I get out of this? Like,

Danelle Marushock  31:27  
what do you do with this? Yeah, in my mind, though, I believe that AAA was teaching them how to do it. Right. Yeah. You know, without completely putting it down. Right? Yeah. So teach me that. Teach me that? You know,

Joe Van Wie  31:44  
so the next day, you made the call, made the call.

Danelle Marushock  31:47  
She took me to a women's meeting.

Joe Van Wie  31:50  
What do you remember from that first meeting, walking through

Danelle Marushock  31:53  
the door? Scared to death? Thinking? Oh, my God, you know what? I didn't know what I was getting into, you know. But thank God for her. Because the car ride and whatever, we talked about everything else, except for my problem, you know, why? Why we were going there, you know, yeah. And I remember walking through the door and being just so afraid, and confused. But then instantly was attracted to just the laughter that was going on, you know, the hugging, and, and all of that, you know, that that was all there. I was attracted to that, you know, and just that, that they looked happy, joyous and free, you know, and, to me, it's just how, how, how. So they sent passed around a list, and people put their name and phone numbers on it, and they gave it to me, and I thought, like, they don't even know who I am. And they're doing this. Yeah. You know, I didn't call any of those.

Joe Van Wie  33:10  
Don't you dare

Danelle Marushock  33:13  
you know, but I gotta say, you know, I I'm forever grateful, that, that I had this person in my life to take me there. You know, because I don't know if I ever would have made it there by myself, because there's that much fear that's behind it. Did that start your recovery that day? And was it December 26 2015. So,

Joe Van Wie  33:40  
within that first year, I kind of want to just see if we what you would call, and then describe as transformation milestones. When did you find out that this was going to be more than just not drinking? Like, okay, you're you're curious, why are you happy? Why are these people laughing? Why do they look like they're at ease without drinking? What's the trick? When did you realize that sobriety in itself wasn't enough that there's something else going on here?

Danelle Marushock  34:09  
Well, I would hear you know, I would hear people talk about relapse, I would hear them talk about dry drunk, and I was interested. Yeah. Like what is that? You know, relapse, obviously, but dry drunk. I was like, what is that? Sounds like your condition. It's like, whatever. Like they didn't talk very highly of it. And I didn't want it so how do I not get it? You know what to catch this? Yeah. You know, so. I listened. I listened to a lot. I mean, like, were my ears were bleeding. You know what I mean? Like, teach me about this, like, teach me how, how to stay sober, but to be happy in that process. You know?

Joe Van Wie  34:51  
I don't know if he can relate to this. Sometimes even. You know, I've been around a again so ref 40. I started listening again in that first year. You're, and I forgot what it's like to really relate to people without alcohol. Do you think your interest was like was this kind of a new feeling to relate so profoundly to strangers? Describing stuff? So honestly,

Danelle Marushock  35:14  
strangers and describing honestly, but yet they all felt like I felt like I knew them. Yeah. Only because they were telling my story. You know, it's like they all did some investigating before I came there. You know, it knew more about me than I knew about me, but they were only sharing their own experience. Yeah, you know?

Joe Van Wie  35:36  
Yeah, it's the common denominator, I think of addiction is how, I guess, pain can cause the same cognition. And what I mean, like in us that we're telling the same stories, you can interchange personal stories and lives. But we're all having the same kind of condition with our personal relationships. And I remember always hearing old timers like World War Two vets describe a sense of overwhelming paranoia first, if they were detox. It's probably because they're detoxing for six months in the rooms. But how do these people know like this was all contrived? And I don't think that's abnormal. Because how would someone know what you've been living with for 4050 years in your head? That's your private life of how you consider your relationships, your shame? Now you go into a room, there's 30 People talking openly about it, you must think this is a setup.

Danelle Marushock  36:31  
Yeah, yes, she she, meaning, you know, the girl that took me to my first meeting, called a lot of people and told them, you know, about me, the prep,

Joe Van Wie  36:43  
prep. Dinner was coming in next week, we would get her file out what's big? What's What's up below this? This is?

Danelle Marushock  36:50  
I don't know, I think I was sober. Maybe. I don't even know. It was early in recovery. It was maybe three, four months sober. You know? And, and I like these thoughts are like coming into my head. And I'm like, Okay, so these aren't going anywhere. Yeah, like, I'm not drinking. I'm not using anything. But my thoughts are wild. They're, they're still the same. Yeah, you know, and I remember thinking, okay. So this is something that I'm going to have to live with the rest of my life. Because I learned this in AAA. Right, what I learned this, this is something that I'm going to have to live with the rest of my life. So how am I going to do that? Yeah. And how I'm going to do that is I am going to learn everything that I can learn about this disease. You know, she told me when she took me to the first meeting, remain teachable. I didn't know what that meant. Are you kidding me? I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know. This whole language that they talk was foreign to me hope, gratitude, all that, you know, but to remain teachable. And she taught me where to sit in the front row. And listen and learn.

Joe Van Wie  38:04  
That's why you're here. Really, is you really have to there's, you know, there's an autonomy and a It's not like it's an overwhelming blanket of help. You have to, you know, that helps the entry. But eventually you have to take the wheel. When did what do you think the most fundamental or the most transformational thing that happened through action? In the first 12 to 24 months? If you've been sober? What would you point to as this is kind of a pivot from being a victim not only to my emotions, I haven't drank in three months, maybe I could get aggravated easy, or I could just fly off? What do you think change that like to like an awareness? What can you point to?

Danelle Marushock  38:54  
Alright, be a little more specific.

Joe Van Wie  38:57  
What I guess I'm trying to

Danelle Marushock  39:00  
talk and the reason why is because as you're talking, I'm already about 15 steps ahead. Yeah. In thinking of like, all these things that happened.

Joe Van Wie  39:07  
Yeah, because you're describing and like the entry, connection, fellowship. I think we all and I think that eats up a lot of real estate in a meeting, we talk about connection and fellowship. But sometimes you can't take that home. And then problems start to arise after this new motivation. And I haven't drank for months, six months. But you could get jammed in a mood, and you don't know why. And you're watching it. You're like, is there any other tools besides going into a media? Absolutely. Where would you point that you that happened to you that maybe you got deeper past? Maybe if it's step work, later on the steps or there was a fundamental change where you're like, wow, there's something deeper than the connection of the fellowship.

Danelle Marushock  39:56  
So it was probably around three or four months sober, and I I remember sitting in aftercare. And I remember sharing, like, I feel like shit, you know, and because I wasn't drinking, I wasn't using, but I didn't feel better. I didn't. Okay, so I felt a little bit better, you know, at IBM, but like, I just didn't. And that was like my jumping off point, like, I'm either going to commit, and do these things that they're suggesting, which would get a sponsor, do the step work, you know, I'll join a HomeGroup get a support group, all of that stuff. Or I'm out of here. He's one of the other, you know, so willingness of him besides that, you know, now my whole family is starting to experience sober moms over a wife, you know, and I did disappointed a lot of people, if I jumped in went the other way. You know, so I had a lot of good motivators, to keep me there. And to, to find the willingness to, you know, join a HomeGroup. But there were so many people in, in AAA, who I just didn't mired, you know, and I still do today, you know, I remember, you know, seeing this group of women, and looking at them every time I'd walk in the meeting, thinking that they look like they have their shit together. You know, like, I want that. So, you know, and being able to put myself in front of these women who was difficult, you know, to introduce myself and say who I mean, they all knew who I was, you know, the scared girl sitting on the corner where their arms folded, you know? Yeah. But I wanted to get to know them. So, you know, here, I got a sponsor, I joined a HomeGroup. And I started making friends in AAA. And I did the step work, and it's through the step work is where the transformation happens. Yeah. Don't ask me. How

Joe Van Wie  42:09  
in timeline, would you say that was? Are we looking at maybe 21st?

Danelle Marushock  42:13  
Year and so first year? Yeah. Yeah, that's scary. It's over a little over a year. By the time I, you know, completed this step work, but my sponsor, you know, it didn't end with the step work, it went on to traditions, it went on to learn about a COA, it went on to learning about, you know, so so many different things. Codependency made me go to Al Anon, you know,

Joe Van Wie  42:39  
so stabilizing the addiction, and getting kind of the fundamentals down of the steps, opened you up to a whole nother realm of things you could look at, like, how dynamic we relate to everyone. And what when did this produce, maybe you want it to be in the field of recovery.

Danelle Marushock  43:04  
So I remember after completing the step, work with my sponsor, and I remember looking at her and saying, like, Alright, 12 Step, like I got to help other people. And why wouldn't I want to have somebody else have this same experience? You know, yeah. And, and for me, that's where it's at, is being there for others, you know, and helping other people. So, you know, it wasn't long after that. So in 2016, I took a CRS class, which was done, certified recovery specialist, I

Joe Van Wie  43:36  
always ask just because it's great. And we've had, we've talked about it before on the podcast, but when did you do that?

Danelle Marushock  43:47  
In 2016.

Joe Van Wie  43:49  
And I took the class two years ago, I was kind of blown away of like, it wasn't information I expected. It was pretty open. It's pretty enlightening liberal. What was your experience going through that class?

Danelle Marushock  44:06  
Educational, the same things that you just described. You know, that my way isn't everybody's way. That's the biggest thing. You know, the biggest thing that I took away from that is that although my way might be through a 12 step program, not everybody's way is that way. And honestly, Joe, I don't care how you get there. How do we keep you there? Yeah, you know, whether that be through smart recovery or another, you know, Mind Control, whatever. However,

Joe Van Wie  44:39  
strobe lights,

high doses of psilocybin stay relaxed, though. Yeah, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about other communities. I didn't know anything about life ring. That was a wild outlier. For me. I was like what lifeflight Smart Recovery I knew was flourishing. I read rational recovery. I really liked their approach. It just puts a little brakes because we're 12 stampers, we could be a little fundamental and but empirically, it's just overwhelming to think 22 million Americans identify in some form of recovery. And at any given time, there might be three 3.5 million in a and that should put you some awe and like yourself, me because we're from Scranton. A flourishes here. Yeah. But my curiosity now is just unbridled. What the fuck are the other 19 million people up to? What are they doing?

What kind of shit? Are they up to? Are they in the Elks club? Is there some secret secret but

it also sparked my interest and my desire to get involved? And what's Dharma refuge? So you do the CRS Do you? Where do you work after? Do it? Did you go right to the recovery bank?

Danelle Marushock  46:03  
No, no. So I got my CRS, and I, you know, I jumped around to a couple different places doing CRS work, and then I landed at Clearbrook as a PCT did that for a few months? Yeah. And it's funny, because, you know, I had a job for 20 years. And, you know, that was one of the consequences I suffered as a result of my my disease. And then I get sober, you know, and, and I get the CRS and, and I must have changed jobs, four or five times. And my husband's like, your W two forms are like, we need a palette to take it to the, to the accountant, you know, but I was learning, you know, like, just dipping in here, you're testing the waters there. But I started at a Clearbrook inpatient facility. And as a PCT and, and really loved. I really loved that job being able to connect with with people coming in, you know,

Joe Van Wie  47:06  
and this is Clearbrook under a banyan. Yes.

Danelle Marushock  47:11  
Yeah. Yeah. So then I, you know, I, I tested the waters in counseling, counselor and training. Yeah, and another facility. And then,

Joe Van Wie  47:28  
you know, what was that experience? Because, you know, a clear break, you get to generally connect a little here or there, you're not going in depth comm counseling, but you're, it's like peer to peer. It's fellowship. Yeah. I thought, you know, I think counseling individual overwhelms me, I do my 12 Step. But it's like, yeah, I think my skill sets are better at doing other things. I, my empathy is there, but it's, it's, I don't have enough discipline. Yeah, I see burnout, and why certain people burn out before they can even admit it. And it's dangerous. And there's not a lot of counselors where there's a lack right now. And I'm seeing a lot of burnout. It's just like, Did you Did you have an experience like daily if you don't want one feel intense,

Danelle Marushock  48:20  
exact same, as you just described, the exact same i i do better in a community base, you know, I do better. Kind of like a butterfly, zipping around from this one to that one and whatever, you know. So the counseling gig wasn't, wasn't for me. It's not to say that it won't ever be. At that time. It wasn't, you know, and and then I was, you know, able to be a part of a startup Brookdale and, and really just had some amazing individuals around me. Incredible, incredible experience. incredible people.

Joe Van Wie  49:04  
That's an all star list started to place.

Danelle Marushock  49:08  
Yeah, you know, so. And landing at the recovery bank, you know, in November, so,

Joe Van Wie  49:16  
yeah, Brookdale. I think of that rehab. It's kind of like the 92 Olympics basketball team got put together to start treatments.

And what people what is this place it looks like,

or I don't know, like, if the Joker made a funhouse of recovery, it was like it was a colony of recovery. Why it's a wild shit. Yeah. Well, there's they seem to be flourishing. So you left there and then recovery bank, I'm enamored by the recovery bank, because of you know, I remember when it opened, I saw, you know, Frank's vision was and how this was matching what data was saying across the car. The truth of what's needed in this level of care this, this break in the chain is community centers with programming. He gets his plan together to get all free programming. Now that COVID is over, and these last 10 months, the weight training wheels are off the place. Yeah, like what is going on?

Danelle Marushock  50:21  
And we're starting to blast off.

Joe Van Wie  50:23  
Yeah. What happened? What describe the last six months? Like, like, what are you what's going on down there? What What have?

Danelle Marushock  50:31  
So I work with a great group of individuals, you know, and we're all in recovery. And, I mean, so COVID, you know, has opened up a little bit for us to start to, you know, really amp up our programming and different events to do. You know, and, and we're really just starting to take off, you know, people are starting to come in and experience the recovery bank. And I think that has to happen. I mean, you can hear about it, read about it, talk about it all you want. Come in and experience it. Yeah. You know, we have, you know, some some amazing volunteers who are there who are committed and loyal, you know, to, to helping the recovery bank, you know, with different groups and events. And I mean, they're, they're unstoppable.

Joe Van Wie  51:31  
Yeah. So we're talking about a list of anything from you could find down there, not only 12 Step organizations, and a cocaine CA is gonna start there, which I thought was awesome. Like, I'm like this. I've done enough cocaine to kill like a family of Silverback gorillas. I'm lucky my nose worked.

Danelle Marushock  51:54  
Frank is like, Do you have any experience with cocaine? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Well, I haven't seen a CA meeting. Like it's like an 80s rally. One of the first stuff. It's one of the first in the area. I mean, they're rich and in the crew, they are just proud. Yeah, to to start this to start the CAA meeting and

Joe Van Wie  52:18  
with knights Ecademy. It gave me a handout.

Danelle Marushock  52:21  
It was late nights, I believe at six. Don't quote me. I could be way off.

Joe Van Wie  52:29  
The flyer look like it was designed by a cocaine addict. It was slick. That was yes.

Oh, please, if you want to talk about cocaine, get down to the recovery bag. Yeah, you'll meet a bunch of people that hate hate birds chirping. But they have refuge recovery to cooking classes, budgeting classes, resume building, an Open Library, art classes, yoga, and pasta step workshops with Jeff. Now, there's other things CRS is if you came down there didn't know how would you describe some of the scenarios of an individual not from court came in? What are you connecting them with? What is what's an assessment? Like? What if someone needed some help or needed services?

Danelle Marushock  53:26  
Somebody who's new in recovery, walks through the front door. First are greeted, you know, by Michelle, who is you know, when you walked through the door, you're the most important person in the room, you know, and, and then you meet, you know, male or female, depending would hook you up with either male CRS or female CRS and really all we're there to do is help walk alongside of this person in recovery until they can get grounded, you know, the same thing that happened for me. Yeah, you know, she took me by the hand literally. And walked through early recovery with me

Joe Van Wie  54:04  
in the CRS like to make a distinction between a CRS and say, like a sponsor. When you're in this role down at the recovery bank, your agency isn't like this a relationship which is kind of sacred, it's delicate of how you proceed. A CRS can take your hand your individual path you can make, do you make a plan with them what and they kind of guide it? What they're,

Danelle Marushock  54:29  
oh, they're they're driving the they're driving the bus, you know, what do you like to do? What are your interests? What are you good at? You know, and and what does recovery look like for you? Not everybody is 12 step based, you know, which is the great thing about the recovery bank because we have it all? Yes you do. We have it all smart where you want to do smart recovery. Great, you na great, you know, refuge recovery. We're here.

Joe Van Wie  54:53  
I'm going to been going on for I love refuge recovery.

Danelle Marushock  54:58  
All recovery we have you know It is.

Joe Van Wie  55:00  
So paint that let me paint this picture to single mother 22. You know, with or without maybe the involvement of the drug court comes in, treat it like a pair. It's not like walking into some other social services this cold, people are trained to respond. If there's connection, there's an alliance happening between the two of you and you're guiding the ship? Do you connect them to what could be overwhelming for someone in early recovery with services to say, this is how you get maybe some a little help for maybe rent assistance? And you would you kind of our liaison maybe to help them find the services

Danelle Marushock  55:47  
and with the resources? Yeah, yeah.

Joe Van Wie  55:50  
And do you find that that is that happening? Often down, there is a

Danelle Marushock  55:53  
guidance, we experienced that all the time

Joe Van Wie  55:57  
doing that and being the shepherd of that, just from your observation? What are you doing to the probability of them being able to achieve a year of sobriety? Would you say it's profound? Yeah. Yeah, to connect them with insurance, maybe even just a dentist's it, it's kind of fucking hard to get sober.

Danelle Marushock  56:15  
To get a driver's license, I need an ID so I can get a job, you know, and so I'll just give you a quick success story, because there's so many of them there, and in how privileged Are we that we get to experience that on a daily basis with with people who are coming to the recovery bank, and, you know, I need to find a job, I don't have a license, you know, and I need my birth certificate to get that right. into them, I'll go to them. It's impossible. You know, to me in early, you know, in the beginning, it's impossible, it seems like this big mountain, and how am I ever going to get over this, you know, so it's just as simple as sitting down, meeting them, where they're at understanding, you know, the, the angst that's behind all of this, the frustration that's behind all of this, and just literally walking with them, to the post office, walking with them down to the building where they can get their, their birth certificate. Yeah, you know, and

Joe Van Wie  57:18  
I think it's, it's, it's profound and distinct help, that it's real, help him make definitive changes, because take away drugs and alcohol or treating something else, my addiction, at least I could speak for myself, of say, these prior conditions of Attention Deficit Disorder, which isn't an intellectual problem, it's an attention problem driven by fight or flight, my emotional insecurities, you got trauma, little trauma. So take away drugs and alcohol for six months, do you know over whelming it is to get out of bed, not have a job, maybe have some marginal criminal record, no one's shepherding you this, you go to an hour meeting, that's a really hard ask at a meeting, and you need that help right away. The recovery bank has filled that gap, you can go to a meeting, but then go down there. These problems are hard if you let someone help you, and we'll milestone them out. And a lot of people you're two years away from looking back saying that was the start of my brain healing? Because you can't handle these fucking problems in early sobriety.

Danelle Marushock  58:28  
No. And it's, you know, oh, it's that easy. You know,

Joe Van Wie  58:34  
just need someone.

Danelle Marushock  58:35  
But I get it. Look, I couldn't make a decision in early recovery. I remember standing in Walmart and looking at green olives and black olives and trying to figure out well, what ones do I want, you know, and becoming so frustrated and so overwhelmed that I leave the store. Yeah. That's hard. And all, you know, and that's, it is real. And, and these individuals are experiencing that. So to be able to have somebody, okay, take a deep breath out. You know,

Joe Van Wie  59:02  
it's a neurological, I mean, if you're going to point to that game and the little puzzle there, you got post acute withdrawal syndrome, that that lasts up to six months, even to a year, say alcohol is not your wheelhouse. You take away an opioid reward. Something from your mind, opioids are treating pain. You know, forget the indulgence. It's treating a pain that this person might not be able to articulate in the first year. You take that away, you have brain lock. You find any marginal distress, you'll make it a crisis, your brains wired for crisis, so not getting a license can seem like that's why it seems impossible. It's not that it's an intellectual problem. Why can't they handle this? Their brain is wired to see crisis and give up reconciliation us. Yeah, that's, that's a long term healing. Like it takes a year.

Danelle Marushock  59:57  
Definitely. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Van Wie  1:00:00  
I didn't know we reached an hour

Danelle Marushock  1:00:02  
already. Yeah, I was so nervous covered here. And I think it you know, well,

Joe Van Wie  1:00:08  
I gotta check to see if the audio we will maybe we have bad audio, we'd have to do it again. But I want to thank you for coming and speaking. And I can't interview enough people from the recovery bank. And I've heard you, you talk and you leave a tone of recovery and, and good energy. It just lingers with people that I. And it was very welcoming. When I came back. I didn't know you, and I would hear you talk. And I would listen distinctly. I'm like, wow, she's, she's got it. Don't say that. No, but like, it's what I want. Like, I know, I know, you have the addiction I could relate to. And it's not crushing you anymore. And I was listening. I was like, I want that. Yeah. Yeah. So thanks again.

Danelle Marushock  1:00:55  
Thanks for having me, Joe. You know, I'm a, I'm a loyal follower of your podcast, I listened to every single one of them and, but it allows me to get to know individuals. It's more an educational, you know, to learn about all the things that we can learn about, you know, yeah,

Joe Van Wie  1:01:15  
there's a lot. I mean, the story's not complete. Yes, why it's fun to talk. So, I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. I'd like to thank you for listening to another episode of all better. You can find us on all better.fm or listen to us on Apple podcasts. Spotify, Google, podcasts, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, and Alexa. Special thanks to our producer John Edwards, in engineering company, 570. Drone. Please like or subscribe to us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. And if you're not on social media, you're awesome. Looking forward to seeing you again. And remember, just because you're sober, doesn't mean you're right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai